Higher and Lower rate of State Pension,. This really needs changing

And many people get way more than £221on the old state pension. For anybody on a lower amount there is pension credit to top them up.

GranPepp

State pensions have become complicated and complex unfortunately but it isn't always advantageous to be on the newer "full pension" of £221 pw, as against £169.50 pw on the old "basic pension" (subject to differing NI contributions which are another area that is more complicated) than it needs to be. If you're on the £221, you're not entitled to pension credit. If you are on the £169.50, you get pension credit that top your weekly money up to £218 plus you get a load of other benefits such as free TV licence, council tax deduction, winter fuel payment, £25 every week the temperature is below a certain level for some consecutive days, you qualify for a social broadband tariff much lower than others pay, help with your fuel bills from funds fuel companies hold, free glasses etc). And someone on £3 more a week because they are on "full state pension" gets none of this. I don't think it's a coincidence the Govt set the new full state pension a smidgen above the income elegibility criteria for pension credit which is a gateway benefit to a lot more.

£169.50 pw is not enough to live on.

Many people on the old State Pension get less than that anyway, as it needed 39 years of contributions to qualify for the full amount, or 44 years for men.

If contracted out then even more deductions are made to that £169.50 even if the private works pension is a pittance.

GranPepp I got full state pension this year . And 2 months before went to citizens advice and they helped me fill in the over the phone form which was logged . They wrote down what I had to say when I phoned DWP pension dept on my birthday. I get £70.04 per week pension credit. I already got 25% off council tax because I live alone . Not entitled to anything else off. I pay full TV licence.. I don't get my glasses for free but do get some money off. I did get the £150 which went to my energy company and added to my credit . I don't get discounted broadband. And waiting to see if I get winter fuel allowance.

I do get enhanced PIP for living and enhanced PIP for mobility indefinitely because I was born disabled but had to fight to get it and went to PIP tribunal last year after fighting for 35 years for any disability benefit.

And I do not have huge savings in fact if it wasn't for having PIP and UC and health UC I would have run out of money before I got my state pension. As my savings where that low. This year is the first time I haven't had to worry about money since my husband died in 2004. And had my first holiday for 19 years in fact had 2. Both Monday to Friday but only in this country and in a premier Inn as they have accessible rooms for walking and wheelchair disabled.
I wasn't brought up with money so still very careful with it .

Well it's not really a coincidence is it? Pension credit is a safety net, you don't put the safety high up do you? In a circus the. Safety net is below the acrobats, bit above them. Very few people are on just £169 as they would have been contracted out and therefore have a workplace pension on top of that. If you are unfortunate enough to be on that amount then you wouldn't have qualified for the new pension either. Many people retiring after 2016 get less than £221., whilst many who retired before get far more. We are in transitional arrangements with regards to the pension and will be for decades

State pensions have become complicated and complex unfortunately but it isn't always advantageous to be on the newer "full pension" of £221 pw, as against £169.50 pw on the old "basic pension" (subject to differing NI contributions which are another area that is more complicated) than it needs to be. If you're on the £221, you're not entitled to pension credit. If you are on the £169.50, you get pension credit that top your weekly money up to £218 plus you get a load of other benefits such as free TV licence, council tax deduction, winter fuel payment, £25 every week the temperature is below a certain level for some consecutive days, you qualify for a social broadband tariff much lower than others pay, help with your fuel bills from funds fuel companies hold, free glasses etc). And someone on £3 more a week because they are on "full state pension" gets none of this. I don't think it's a coincidence the Govt set the new full state pension a smidgen above the income elegibility criteria for pension credit which is a gateway benefit to a lot more.

Here is a really useful insight into pension provision in other countries.

commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn00290/?fbclid=IwY2xjawGLXeNleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHfscNQwhpW3WtbNpYh5iZ1WS82DQaX8L_Z4QccZI0ki0k589ha73oTerwg_aem_ccYea9WEP_nJS54q4_eYng

Scottiebear, the 35 years for full 'new' pension apply to you, or indeed anyone currently, who has a contribution history before 2016. It could be as many as 50 years or as few as 28, as we are all currently in transitional arrangements.

Doodledog. Full state pension requires 35 full years NI contributions. Any opted out SERPS years are deducted from how many years a person has. At the time it meant I paid less NI, as did my employer. When my SERPS years were deducted when I claimed my state pension at 66 I didn't have enough full years contributions. My state pension is correct. I was really just having a moan because I may have benefitted at the time, but my private pension is non incremental and I can't help feeling that I would have had full state pension, which does go up yearly, if not for the SERPS years and I would have been better off. To be fair, I retired at 60, due to work circumstances. If I'd carried on working I could have made up the years. Just one of those things.

I’m struggling to follow your situation, Scottiebear. That’s probably my fault as it’s late and I’m tired, but why have your SERPS years been deducted and why is your final salary pension worth less each year? If you can give a bit more information you should get advice from those of us who have been union reps or who have worked in pensions or similar financial services.

I have been receiving state pension for several years. I dont receive full pension as, like many others, I have had my SERPS years deducted from my working years, so I'm not left with enough years for full state pension. I understand this to a point, as I benefitted at the time. However, my small pension from the SERPS years (during which I had no choice about opting into SERPS) and the pension, whilst a final salary pension, is non incremental. So it's getting worth less each year. Without those years I would have had enough years for full state pension which increases yearly and increased considerably last year and is due to increase well this year again. Just curious if anyone else is in same position.

Allira

^Currently most people are in transitional arrangements which will continue for decades^

Or until a new Government is elected which changes it all yet again.

I agree, The future governments will undoubtedly change the system again at some point

Allira

^Do you bother to read other people's posts, or try to find things out for yourself?^

Sorry? There is no need for rudeness Doodledog.

I was responding to BaronJohnPaul's statement about the internet being available, which I quoted. It helps to read all the posts.

If you had read all the posts you would have seen that I had responded to BaronJohnPaul and said exactly the same thing.

You posted aggressively to accuse me of finding the situation funny when I was smiling at the fact that you were on the internet asking for information that is very readily available on the internet. You had already demanded facts and figures about the old pension earlier in the thread, rather than look for them yourself.

I wasn’t being rude - I still found the information for you - I was trying to take the heat out of the situation.

Doodledog

I have not been in the slightest bit aggressive and am not aggressive at all and that accusation is totally unfounded.

However, some of the accusations and assumptions you are posting about me seem to feel like personal attacks and are upsetting.

I will not report them but let them speak for themselves and ignore any more.

Currently most people are in transitional arrangements which will continue for decades

Or until a new Government is elected which changes it all yet again.

Do you bother to read other people's posts, or try to find things out for yourself?

Sorry? There is no need for rudeness Doodledog.

I was responding to BaronJohnPaul's statement about the internet being available, which I quoted. It helps to read all the posts.

A much discussed topic I would say and tbh I'm no further forward even with all your comments. I stick to what I first said which is I believe everyone should get a detailed summary of what and how their pension is worked out before you actually start claiming it. If this is/was done I certainly did not receive anything. However it is a topic which we could talk about until we are blue in the face. I do receive less than £218/week as Brahumbug quotes so I may look into the Pension Credit to see how I stand but I do not hold out much hope.

To restate an earlier post of mine, which IS factually correct.



09/09/2024 00:44Brahumbug

There is a lot of nonsense in this thread about pensions. The new pension is not £221 a week, that is the maximum that some one starting contributing after 2026 can get. Currently most people are in transitional arrangements which will continue for decades. The basic pension of £169 could be topped up by SERPS and S2P which can take the pension to over £300 a week. Many pensioners get far more than £221 under this system. The new pension got rid of SERPS and S2P. Accumulated rights under the old system were reflected in the starting amount of the new pension so nobody lost out. In Addition a deduction was made to reflect any years that people were contracted out. If your starting amount was less than the full pension then contributions after 2016 would increase it to the new maximum but no further. Under the old system you would have been able to build further pension entitlement. So the new pension is actually worse than the old. If you get less than the full new pension then you would never have qualified for it anyway. Around half of those on the new pension recieve less than the full amount. I personally know several pensioners on the old pension who revive well in excess of £270 a week, my father
being one of them. The state pension in this country is actually generous considering the amount of money we pay into it in national insurance. It is important that anyone receiving less than £218 a week applies for pension credit to see if they are entitled. Plus if you are over the pension credit limit by a small margin, then you can apply for help on low income grounds.
benefits-calculator.turn2us.org.uk/

maddyone

Brahumbug
You are clearly don’t understand the true facts.
Perhaps you should do a little more research.
Some people on the old basic state pension may collect a higher pension, but that depends upon those pensioners having paid SERPS or other additional contributions. The vast majority of pensioners who are on the old basic state pension do not get more, or even as much, as the new state pension. Therefore your statement that

The new pension is not more than the old pension.

is factually incorrect!

Sorry, but I do understand the system and my statement is factually correct. The new pension is a maximum, not an automatic entitlement. It was designed to reflect people's previous entitlement to SERPS and S2P, so if you didn't qualify for those you wouldn't get them in the new pension. Please check your facts before posting misleading statements.

Allira

^With the internet it is very easy to find things out and set things up^

The internet was only available to the public generally from about 1993 and the Government Gateway not until about 2001.

Many people retired before then.

Yes, which is exactly what I said in my post of 16:15.

Do you bother to read other people's posts, or try to find things out for yourself? You asked a question about Guaranteed Minimum Pension as though it was something only few people know about: Anyone? No-one? and I linked to it with a smile, as it took seconds to Google.

Oh! Is it amusing?
I didn't think it was that funny.
I wasn't amused by it - it's hardly a subject for comedy - but that is the second time (at least) that you have been actually on the Internet when you asked people to find information that is literally at your fingertips if you could be bothered to find it.

People retiring on the old State Pension may receive GMP - apparently that annoys people retiring on the new State Pension because apparently some on the old State Pension receive enormous amounts monthly.
I am not 'annoyed' that some on the old pension get more than the new. I do get irritated when people (like yourself, so I'm not accused of doing the 'some people' thing) insist that they are right about the old pension being lower, and demand stats to prove otherwise, though. Incidentally, I note that there has been no climbdown now that various posters have said that yes, there are indeed those who get more under the old system, and it is not just my opinion.

However, receiving GMP does mean that a firm's pension is reduced accordingly and also there is nothing in the way of increases for that part to which GMP applies.
Yes, just as there is no compensation for being opted out, or for all sorts of anomalies that catch out those who have untypical working patterns.

That link mainly applies to those receiving a pension after 2016.
Which is exactly what I said above.

Presumably men born before 1945 and women born before 1951 need to seek specialist advice (again, and at a cost).
No. Now that we all have the Internet, they can check themselves, and if that is not possible because they are not able to use the Internet there are phone numbers they can ring.

I have no objection to helping people do what they can't do themselves, but not only are you asking others to do your donkey work and Google for you when you are online yourself, you are also repeating what has already been posted a few posts up as though you thought of it.

I understand that you may be concerned about life just now. I honestly do. But you are being aggressive when there is no need. I for one (and there are many others) am not trying to pretend that life is easy now, or that it will be in future. The country is in a mess. But attacking people is not helpful to you or anyone. We need to stick together and look for collective ways though this.

With the internet it is very easy to find things out and set things up

The internet was only available to the public generally from about 1993 and the Government Gateway not until about 2001.

Many people retired before then.

Doodledog

Allira

So everyone is different. Comparisons are pointless, except for pointing out that SOME pensioners are very hard up.

Yes, I agree.

However, comparisons are interesting and just show wat a complete mess the system was.

Guaranteed Minimum Pension anyone?
Who can explain that?
Anyone? No-one?

www.gov.uk/government/publications/new-state-pension-if-youve-been-contracted-out-of-additional-state-pension/guaranteed-minimum-pension-gmp-and-the-effect-of-the-new-state-pension

Oh! Is it amusing?
I didn't think it was that funny.

People retiring on the old State Pension may receive GMP - apparently that annoys people retiring on the new State Pension because apparently some on the old State Pension receive enormous amounts monthly.

However, receiving GMP does mean that a firm's pension is reduced accordingly and also there is nothing in the way of increases for that part to which GMP applies.

That link mainly applies to those receiving a pension after 2016.

Presumably men born before 1945 and women born before 1951 need to seek specialist advice (again, and at a cost).

It was. 2016.

I assume the poster you are referencing is talking about her husband's occupational pension. Most of them can be inherited, and the bereaved receive a percentage of them.

I understood that inheritance of your late DH's state pension had been stopped some time ago.

Franbern

Does anyone know, for definite, if pensioners on lower rate can get Pension Credit to top up to Higher rate? I have searched and searched for an answer to this, but nothing on the Pension information mentions this.

Surely if this is the case, then all those Pensioners on the lower rate should be informed and told to make that PC application immediately..

Minimum pension income guarantee is £218.15 (single rate) so if state pension together with any other income falls below that rate, then pension credit will be payable. The minimum income guarantee is higher if you claim attendance allowance or you are a carer for someone else who claims care component of a disability benefit. Posted upthread in more detail.

I wouldn't argue for equalisation for all the reasons I've already given, but I don't think it's fair to say that everyone should have taken responsibility, BaronJohnPaul. It's easy now to check on things, but many people on the old pension would not have had access to the Internet before they retired, and it is clear from a number of posts that people were badly advised (eg told that their pensions would be based on their husbands', so there was no point in paying for a 'full stamp'). We know from when women's pension age was raised that people weren't informed - successive governments have been dreadful at giving information about the State Pension, and without the Internet, where would people have gone to do regular checks.

The TPS is very clear, and makes it easy for members to check regularly, but not all pension schemes are the same, and not all employees (particularly in the past, and more particularly female employees) were in similarly helpful ones - if they were in occupational pension schemes at all.

Women in particular need to be careful to ensure that they have enough full years to get the full State Pension, but the new pension is more straightforward than the old one, as everyone gets the same, and it all depends on their own contributions, rather than those of spouses and additional contributions.