Lancs Coroner Submits Report to Dept of Transport

dotpocka

most people i have met with cataracts 60yr olds

most people i have met with cataracts 60yr olds

Old people are so reluctant to give up the independence of driving. Yes, they should be required to have annual eye tests before renewing a licence. And yes, their family or carers should be held responsible if they have accidents due to poor health or sight.
I gave up driving at 65 because I knew I wasn’t a safe driver. Ten years later the optician said that, legally, I could still drive.

No. It isn't that clear cut. This from the General Optical Council explains:

33. You should advise the patient that you have a duty to notify the DVLA/DVA yourself if, in your professional judgement, a patient either will not or cannot do so, and there is any concern for the safety of the patient and/or the wider public. For more information on the steps you should take in such situations, see the section below on ‘disclosing to the DVLA/ DVA without consent’.

optical.org/en/guidance/disclosing-confidential-information/vision-and-safe-driving-what-to-do-if-a-patient-s-vision-means-they-may-not-be-fit-to-drive/

My understanding is that opticians have a legal obligation to report to DVLA if someone does not meet the eyesight standard. An elderly relative was advised that he needed a cataract operation and if he did not get it done he would be reported to the DVLA. That ensured he got the operation done, he had been putting it off.

nanna8

I don’t particularly feel comfortable with night driving even though I am allowed to because my sight isn’t too bad. Fine on main roads but I find narrow roads with people’s headlights coming towards me challenging so I opt not to drive then. I am also nervous of animals suddenly jumping out ( we get kangaroos at night in some areas round here and they have no road sense whatsoever) Eye tests are actually free here ( unlike most other things medical )

We had a young deer jump out on us last night, luckily we weren't going fast because it dithered, going one way then another before turning and leaping over the hedge.

Kangaroos wait for car headlights so that they can see to cross the road then bounce across!

I drive less at night nanna8 and many friends feel the same, also reduce their motorway driving. I suspect most of us can be trusted to police ourselves

I don’t particularly feel comfortable with night driving even though I am allowed to because my sight isn’t too bad. Fine on main roads but I find narrow roads with people’s headlights coming towards me challenging so I opt not to drive then. I am also nervous of animals suddenly jumping out ( we get kangaroos at night in some areas round here and they have no road sense whatsoever) Eye tests are actually free here ( unlike most other things medical )

BlueBelle, I’m 76 and if I wasn’t allowed to drive simply because of an arbitrary age cut off point, my quality of life would be significantly reduced.
Last year I couldn’t drive for 4 months after a fall which fractured my shoulder. I lost my independence overnight. I had to rely on my daughters and friends. I couldn’t exercise my lab so he was boarded. It aged my rapidly physically and mentally.
I’d be happy to have my optician and GP confirm fit to drive but the cost of that and pressures on gp’s doesn’t support that

A significant risk of having a heart attack, is different from a signifcant risk of having a heart attack while driving.

I agree, M0nica
A relative had a heart attack and died at the wheel of his car, luckily no-one was injured. He was in his very early 60s with no diagnosed heart problems.

From 40 onwards there's a significant risk of heart attack - coronary artery disease is not a disease solely or even mainly of old age - so it's not really an argument for stopping people driving at 80. One person's 80 is another person's 50, healthwise.
But I do agree with much stricter reporting of poor vision & compulsory eye tests for drivers over 60.

Blebelle I profoundly disagree. DH, at 80, and a member of the Institute of Advanced Motorists, had an IAM older drivers assessment done last year, which he passed with flying colours.

How many accidents occur because a driver has been taken ill at the wheel - at any age - ? By that I mean unexpected events, not events where ill health means the driver should no longer be driving anyway. I think it is very few and I have seen no evidence that this is something that is a danger for older drivers.

How many people drive when they have a really bad cold, or viral infection and need to take their children to school. I can remember doing that - I have driven home from work with migraine. What about people taken ill with food poisoning, or falling asleep at the wheel? All these you hear of.

But old people having heart attacks, seizures, or fainting, very rarely. old people driving and causing accidents because their eyesight is not up to scratch or because they have undiagnosed dementia, sadly, very regularly that is why I think everyone should have to regularly produce evidence of a recent eye tests and older people should need to take a short basic cognition test.

The other danger for older drivers is not driving sufficiently to keep their road awareness sharp. During COVID I used my car once a week to drive 4 miles to the supermarket and back - and that was all. When I came back to driving more and further and on busy roads, I was aware that my driving coordination had deteriorated and also my confidence. I now make sure that I make regular longer journeys, and that I regulalry drive on dual carriageways and motorways. so that both my driving and road judgement is up to scratch and capapble of dealing with any road conditions I meet.

It’s not just eye conditions my friends 92 year old father is …she says … a very good driver and takes a test every two or three years ….but….hes just had a heart attack what if he d been driving when he had it I said I presume that ll be the end of his driving days , oh no she says he ll be fine once he gets over this

I know this will upset a lot of people on here but I firmly believe there should be a cut of date just like there’s a starting date and 80 is old enough Three of my friends all hung up their driving gloves at 75 Two are still driving at 80 one with a bad heart and a bad hip
It’s not about killing yourself it’s about killing others

It would be a simple process. Many countries do it as standard when you get/renew a a licence.

You book an optician "driving licence" test - the optician completes the test and sends it electronically to the driving licence issuer on the specific form. No form - no licence.

It can also be made a condition of your driving licence that you have to wear glasses. There was a kerfuffle at the driving test centre in Sweden when DD took her test because a young lad, also booked for his driving test at the same time, had not brought the stipulated glasses - so his test was cancelled as his licence was not valid without them.

It seems madness in the 21st century that the UK relies on self reporting of eyesight issues - even for the over 70s - like it's the 1940s with few cars on the road.

Absolutely Jane. I've worn spectacles for most of my life, so am a frequent visitor to an optician. I know, then, that my eyesight makes me safe to drive.
I do understand that those older people who do not see an optician regularly might need a little nudge.

My dad gave his licence up when his eyesight got bad, cost him a fortune in taxis and very inconvenient but we were very proud of him

A neighbour drove a large jeep type car and would often have his space saver tyre as he’d bump the kerb yet again. Eventually his family took the keys off him. He was 91 and an absolute danger.

I find it shocking that people can self certify their eye condition on the driving licence renewal form. I sent my license back not long after my diagnosis of macular degeneration. Surely there ought to be official verification of eyesight.

GrannySomerset

As DD’s Parkinson’s progressed his excellent driving deteriorated though he couldn’t acknowledge it. I asked his consultant to check him out at our next visit and he was allowed to drive home and never again. He wouldn’t listen to me so this was a satisfactory solution and his sixty plus years of unblemished driving was untarnished. And I was hugely relieved at having done the right thing.

This is probably the kindest route to take, but if the person still disagrees and decides to carry on driving these are the guidelines:

"Whilst doctors and other medical professionals are not legally obliged to inform DVLA, they are responsible for considering whether a patient’s condition or treatment may affect their ability to drive safely.

This means reporting any concerns to DVLA if a person holding a driving licence has a medical condition or is undergoing treatment that may affect their driving ability, both now and in the future.

If a doctor has declared that you are medically unfit to drive, it is the law that you hand your licence back to the DVLA. GPs also have a duty of protection to inform authorities if they have declared a patient unfit and they continue to drive.

Contrary to what some people may believe, GPs do not need a patient’s consent to do this. Whilst doctors do guarantee confidentiality between them and a patient, they are not risking their position if they report a patient to the DVLA who is continuing to drive, despite being warned. Medical professionals have a wider duty to protect and promote public safety. Confidentiality is therefore not absolute, and reporting a dangerous driver is far more important.

GrannySomerset that was a difficult thing to do, but ultimately a kindness. We all need to be aware of both ourselves and the people we love.

As DD’s Parkinson’s progressed his excellent driving deteriorated though he couldn’t acknowledge it. I asked his consultant to check him out at our next visit and he was allowed to drive home and never again. He wouldn’t listen to me so this was a satisfactory solution and his sixty plus years of unblemished driving was untarnished. And I was hugely relieved at having done the right thing.

If I have a prescription change I always ask about driving fitness. I have a test every two years. I'd be happy to go yearly if it was required for my licence.

I am well aware that other bits of me are not tip-top so it would be silly to assume my eyes were automatically good enough.

Chocolatelovinggran

The son of a friend was knocked off his bike at 8.45 on a busy school destination road by a car driven by an elderly man.
A police officer arrived and asked the man to read the number plate on the car a few yards away.
The response was " What car?"
I'm a driver aged 70 + and would welcome a compulsory annual sight test for my age group.

We are called for an annual check at the optician we use, perhaps a certificate saying your eyesight is good enough to drive a car could be issued as standard. Although the check is free we pay an extra £5 for the in depth screening and would be happy to pay an extra £5 for a certificate saying our eyesight is at the standard needed for driving a car.

(Or maybe I should have said - they don't see the rest of us!)

I suppose, Allira, we all notice those mad drivers in their late teens and early 20s but we don't see older adults with eye problems at all.