No, you won't be getting an EXTRA £105 a week.

silverlining48

I have had a look and the average full pension on the old pre 2016 rate is £176.45 pw.
The average full pension on the new post 2016 rate is £230.45. Pw.
Still an average £50 pw difference.
I am on the old pension and thought I got £169 which if I was on my own would barely cover council tax and energy bills but apparently it’s increased by a few pounds to £176 which frankly won’t make much of a difference.
£176 pw roughly equates to £4 per hour fir a 40 hour week. A quarter of the minimum wage.
We all have to pay the same for food clothes and bills so a two tier pension is just unfair. Both pensions should be equalised, not by taking anything from younger pensioners but upping the lower rate to give parity.
I feel very sorry for those (literally) poor souls who retired just before April 2016 on this appallingly low rate.
Most Western European countries have much higher pensions than we have here. Just asking for fairness.

Sorry but you are wrong. What you have looked up is full amount of the old basic pension and the maximum amount of the new pension. The average figures are the ones I gave above.

Thank you theworriedwell.

If anyone really wants to spend a mind-boggling evening they might want to read this by fomer Pensions Minister Steve Webb:

Why is money being deducted from my state pension? The mysteries of CODs, COPEs and Contracting Out explained.

www.lcp.com/media/1150050/why-is-money-being-deducted-from-my-state-pension.pdf

This next I mentioned upthread as it relates directly to the opening post but worth repeating if if people insist on comparing old and new systems.

The Category D pension of £105.70pw is for those who are aged 80 or over. It does not depend on National Insurance Contributions. It was introduced in 1971 to provide non-contributory support for those over 80 who had not qualified for a state pension through National Insurance contributions. These pensions remain but only for those reaching pensionable age before 6 April 2016.

www.gov.uk/over-80-pension/what-youll-get

To reitertate. You usually need ten years NIC to get a pension.

Under the old system, ten years would give you a pension of £45.25 pw but if you are 80 or more you can get a category D pension increasing this to £105.70 pw.

Under the new system, ten years would give you a pension of £65.78 pw but it would not be topped up to £105.70. There will be no corresponding top up when these women reach 80. The oldest is already 72.

Pension credit is the fall back for pensioners of all ages but only those under the old pension system can also get Savings Credit as well as Guaranteed Credit

The 25p age addition on the UK state pension was introduced in 1971 to recognize the needs of people over 80, but it has not been uprated since its introduction, meaning it has lost value due to inflation and is now worth very little. Successive governments have not increased it, instead focusing resources on other forms of support (e.g income support from 1988 (which replaced supplementary benefit), winter fuel payment from 1997, pension credit from 2003), or protecting the overall basic state pension rate e.g index linking by law from 2010 (Pension Act 2007) and the triple lock from 2010.

The 25p will not be paid to pensioners in receipt of the new state pension when they reach 80. It seems paltry to the recipent but at the moment it costs the government £39 million a year. The £10 Christmas bonus costs around £130 million.

The 25p increase in the State Pension at age 80 would be worth £6.50 per week in today's money.

PaynesGrey

No. That is not the average pension under each system. It is the maximum full pension someone would get if they had paid (or been credited) with the number of years required to get a full pension.

The old system IS a two-tier system - basic pension and additional state pension. The new system is a single-tier system.

You need to try to think about this differently. Someone under the old system could have a two-tier pension of almost £400 pw, £176.45 plus £221.10 additional state pension through paying into SERPS/SSP. Why do you think that is? Why are they getting so much more than you are and are you complaining about it?

www.gov.uk/government/publications/benefit-and-pension-rates-2025-to-2026/benefit-and-pension-rates-2025-to-2026#state-pension

If you only receive £169 compared to the full basic rate of £176.45 then there will be a reason for that shortfall. Either you are short on contribution years, didn’t pay SERPS or were contracted out of SERPS (and so have a private pension) or paid married woman’s stamp for some years.

If someone has an income of only £169 they could claim Pension Credit to bring their income up to £227.10 pw (at current rates). This would be just £3.15 pw less than someone receiving full new State Pension*. However, unlike them they would have been able to claim (last year) Winter Fuel Payment of £200 or £300 depending on age, Warm Home Discount of £150 plus help with dental and eye care and a free TV licence if over 75 - making them better off than the person receiving new State Pension.

* The rate of Pension Credit is deliberately kept just below the full rate of the new State Pension so that those receiving the latter that are prevented from claiming those other benefits

Now that WFP has been reinstated (for people with an income up to £35,000), the person receiving Pension Credit will still get the Warm Home Discount and the other benefits.

For someone reaching SP age after 5 April 2016, but with NIC paid before and after that date, DWP do two calculations to see if they would have been better off under the old or new systems. If some would have been better off under the old system, because they paid into SERPS, they have a protected payment.

Ask yourself this. If everybody reaching SP age after 5 April 2016 was better off under the new system there would be no need to do the two calculations, would there?

Someone whose entire working life is after 5 April 2016 will never be able to build an additional state pension. It is a single-tier pension. It was introduced to save the government money as paying the State Pension becomes more and more unsustainable.

And, as I explained above, older pensioners have much better spousal inheritance rights than younger pensioners. Depending on age, someone on the old system might be able to inherit their late spouse’s basic pension to top up their own to £176.45 a week (at current rates) and 100% of their SERPS. People reaching SP age after 5 April 2016 cannot inherit any of their late spouse’s basic pension and only 50% of their SERPS. Those who were under 55 when they were widowed get far less than that, even nothing.

Thank you for a great explanation. I do sometimes wonder if anyone knows about this. When people who have contracted out want the full new pension id like to know if they want to share their private pension as it's partly funded by them contracting out.

silverlining48

There certainly is a big gap between the pre and post April 2016 pensions. It is about £50 per week, £200 per month, with no plan for parity.
With annual % increases the gap will widen still further.
We get one of the lowest pensions in Western Europe, always have, probably always will.

Depends on your contributions and if you were contracted in or out
I'm on the old pension and get more than the new pension.

No. That is not the average pension under each system. It is the maximum full pension someone would get if they had paid (or been credited) with the number of years required to get a full pension.

The old system IS a two-tier system - basic pension and additional state pension. The new system is a single-tier system.

You need to try to think about this differently. Someone under the old system could have a two-tier pension of almost £400 pw, £176.45 plus £221.10 additional state pension through paying into SERPS/SSP. Why do you think that is? Why are they getting so much more than you are and are you complaining about it?

www.gov.uk/government/publications/benefit-and-pension-rates-2025-to-2026/benefit-and-pension-rates-2025-to-2026#state-pension

If you only receive £169 compared to the full basic rate of £176.45 then there will be a reason for that shortfall. Either you are short on contribution years, didn’t pay SERPS or were contracted out of SERPS (and so have a private pension) or paid married woman’s stamp for some years.

If someone has an income of only £169 they could claim Pension Credit to bring their income up to £227.10 pw (at current rates). This would be just £3.15 pw less than someone receiving full new State Pension*. However, unlike them they would have been able to claim (last year) Winter Fuel Payment of £200 or £300 depending on age, Warm Home Discount of £150 plus help with dental and eye care and a free TV licence if over 75 - making them better off than the person receiving new State Pension.

* The rate of Pension Credit is deliberately kept just below the full rate of the new State Pension so that those receiving the latter that are prevented from claiming those other benefits

Now that WFP has been reinstated (for people with an income up to £35,000), the person receiving Pension Credit will still get the Warm Home Discount and the other benefits.

For someone reaching SP age after 5 April 2016, but with NIC paid before and after that date, DWP do two calculations to see if they would have been better off under the old or new systems. If some would have been better off under the old system, because they paid into SERPS, they have a protected payment.

Ask yourself this. If everybody reaching SP age after 5 April 2016 was better off under the new system there would be no need to do the two calculations, would there?

Someone whose entire working life is after 5 April 2016 will never be able to build an additional state pension. It is a single-tier pension. It was introduced to save the government money as paying the State Pension becomes more and more unsustainable.

And, as I explained above, older pensioners have much better spousal inheritance rights than younger pensioners. Depending on age, someone on the old system might be able to inherit their late spouse’s basic pension to top up their own to £176.45 a week (at current rates) and 100% of their SERPS. People reaching SP age after 5 April 2016 cannot inherit any of their late spouse’s basic pension and only 50% of their SERPS. Those who were under 55 when they were widowed get far less than that, even nothing.

I was outraged when I was awarded 25p per week after turning 80. This derisory slap-in-the-face is useless and, together with with £10 at Christmas should be stopped.
This country is broke and broken and public funds should be going where they are desperately needed, not to every old person from the King down.

I have had a look and the average full pension on the old pre 2016 rate is £176.45 pw.
The average full pension on the new post 2016 rate is £230.45. Pw.
Still an average £50 pw difference.
I am on the old pension and thought I got £169 which if I was on my own would barely cover council tax and energy bills but apparently it’s increased by a few pounds to £176 which frankly won’t make much of a difference.
£176 pw roughly equates to £4 per hour fir a 40 hour week. A quarter of the minimum wage.
We all have to pay the same for food clothes and bills so a two tier pension is just unfair. Both pensions should be equalised, not by taking anything from younger pensioners but upping the lower rate to give parity.
I feel very sorry for those (literally) poor souls who retired just before April 2016 on this appallingly low rate.
Most Western European countries have much higher pensions than we have here. Just asking for fairness.

silverlining48

I worked and paid NI for 45 years, retiring before 2016 so get the old pension.
The new pension just needs 35 years of contribution. That doesn’t seem at all fair. Can you please explain Doodle.

The new pension is only 35 years for those starting contributing after 2016, for everyone else it can be anywhere from 29 years to 52 years to qualify for the new state pension. The new pension is not £230 a week, that is the maximum amount and only around half of pensioners get that amount. The old pension had an earnings related element that could take it up to £390 a week. The new pension benefits the lower paid and women will gain under the new system as it is no longer earnings related. The average gap between the two pensions is quite small. In 2024 the average new pension was £207.53 whilst the average of the old pension was £198.68.

Tinlizzy67

I dont understand why our pensions vary so much. It seems that people born after 1956 get much more than a person born pre 1956. A friend recently shared that she got just over £450 more a week than I do because in her day they had SERPS. She doesnt have any pension credits either. Beyond me!

The pensions vary due to the fact that prior to 2016 it was earnings related with SERPS and S2P. This has been abolished and it is now a flat rate pension, or will be once the transitional arrangements have worked their way through the system which won't be complete for many decades.

There are always misleading headings around. One that turns up regularly tells you to check because you may be eligible for the heating allowance after all. It's just a reminder about pension credit, but it's made to sound as if it's something new.

The whole point of the pension being a benefit is that when you think about having paid in all your working life, that NI contribution also entitled you to unemployment benefit if you became unemployed and other benefits for which you needed to have paid in NI. People who have no contributions are entitled to different benefits when unemployed than those with NI contributions - that certainly ussed to be the case, though I don't know if it is the same since universal credit came in. NI payments were not a personal pot into which you paid like private contributory pensions are.

A friend of mine was widowed about two years ago. His late wife didn't reach pension age so he feels aggrieved that he gets nothing from all the contributions she paid in NI all her working life. However it's no different to someone who works all their life and never gets unemployment benefit. Basically they never met the conditions required to receive it.

Unfortunately there do seem to be unfairnesses in the benefit system. No system designed to protect the whole population is likely to seem fair to everyone as we all have different circumstances. As 'Scar - in the Lion King' said "Life's not fair!".

I'm a WASPI and retired at 66 as I couln't afford to retire until I was due my state pension as my other pensions are very small. I'm a divorcee with a mortgage which ends when I'm 79! Although I'm struggling financially, I know there are many worse off than I am. Comparing the old and new pensions is simply not comparing like with like. Many people on the old pension get a much bigger state pension than I do as they benefit from SERPS etc however I benefit from home responsibilities credits having been a stay at home mum for quite a few years. There are winners and losers in every scheme but whatever the government do there will be some who think things are unfair. We just have to get on with things as they are.

silverlining48

There certainly is a big gap between the pre and post April 2016 pensions. It is about £50 per week, £200 per month, with no plan for parity.
With annual % increases the gap will widen still further.
We get one of the lowest pensions in Western Europe, always have, probably always will.

Yes, women being shafted again. My DH and I are the same age, and I deferred my pension to wait a short while for him.

I get the old one, with a bump for deferring. He gets the new one. He gets a full % increase, but I get it only on the base of mine, not on SSP, or deferred. So gradually his is getting more

Yes, I’m on old SP . But get it topped up with Pension credit.

I’ve just turned 80, and that reminds me. I must check to see if I’ve been topped up with the 25p extra pension.
Completely forgot about that.

I dont understand why our pensions vary so much. It seems that people born after 1956 get much more than a person born pre 1956. A friend recently shared that she got just over £450 more a week than I do because in her day they had SERPS. She doesnt have any pension credits either. Beyond me!

PaynesGrey

State Pension is usually based on the number of years of NIC someone has paid. The minimum required is ten years.

Women needed to pay 39 years to get a full basic State Pension (bSP). Men needed 44 years. That five year difference is because women used to get their SP at 60 while men had to wait until 65.

That has now been equalised and the current SP age is 66 for both men and women. That will rise to 67 between 2026 and 2028, and then to 68 between 2044 and 2046.

Someone age 80 or over now who only paid NIC for ten years would be entitled to £45.24 pw. That’s the current rate of full bSP of £176.50 x (10/39). For last year, 2024/25, that would have been £169.50 x (10/39) £43.46 (which is why I think the example on the gov.uk pages refer to £43).

Note. The Over 80 Pension is NOT based on NIC but will give someone a pension of £105.70 pw irrespective of why they were getting less than this. The rules say:

You can claim the over 80 pension if all of the following apply:

•you’re 80 or over

•you do not get basic State Pension or your basic State Pension is less than £105.70 a week in 2025 to 2026

•you were resident in the UK for at least 10 years out of 20 (this does not have to be 10 years in a row) - this 20 year period must include the day before you turned 80 or any day after

•you were ‘ordinarily resident’ in the UK, the Isle of Man or Gibraltar on your 80th birthday or the date you made the claim for this pension, if later

Women born after 5 April 1953 need 35 years to get a full new SP currently £230.25. Someone with only ten years of NIC will get £65.78 - £230.25 x (10/35).

Note. There is NO similar top-up provision under the new SP rules i.e. if you reached SP age after 5 April 2016. The oldest women receiving new State Pension now are 72 (born after 5 April 1953) I have not heard of any plans to introduce a similar top up for them when they reach 80.

There is Pension Credit to top someone’s income up to minimum of £227.10. No single pensioner should have an income of less than this. That is only £3.05 less than the full nSP.

There is a lot of argument over the differential in basic SP and new SP, but as Doodledog explains, that isn’t taking into account the Additional State Pension (aSP) earned through paying into SERPS/SSP. That contribution scheme was abolished in 2016.

As others have said, nor does it take into the account the women who were expecting to receive their SP at 60 and had to wait (and work) up to another six years. I calculate I “lost” £40,000 due to that.

Nor (as DD says) does it take into account the much more generous spousal SP inheritance provisions for older pensioners. Some will have inherited both their husbands bSP and aSP. This chart and further links explain:

www.lcp.com/en/our-impact/inherited-state-pensions-for-widows-and-widowers

With spousal inheritance it is possible to receive a pension under the old system of well in excess of £300 pw even close to £400 pw.

Under the nSP provisions you can still inherit up to 50% of a spouses aSP but not if you were widowed before the age of 55 as I was. The rules for younger widowers are brutal. If I live to 83, I will have lost over £25,000 due to that. Because I was widowed at 51 I currently receive £25 week less pension than someone who was widowed at 55 based on exactly the same spousal SERPS.

Former Pensions Minister under the Coalition government Steve Webb, the architect of the single tier pension, and Moneybox’s Paul Lewis have both explained that the ultimate aim of the single tier pension (nSP) was that it would be cheaper in the long run for the government. That’s borne out by this article from Paul Lewis:

archive.is/20250103205152/https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/money/pensions-and-retirement/why-younger-pensioners-bigger-state-pension-paul-lewis-3458070

As he says there: Three million old state pensioners get more than the standard £221.20 a week the (then) new state pension. So comparing just the basic pensions of £221.20 and £169.50 is misleading. Most people get more or less than those standard amounts.

In answer to silverlinings question. If you work more than the maximum number of years needs to get a full pension you won’t get any more pension for it. I worked and paid NIC for 50 years. Only 35 count. I still don’t get a full SP due to a large rebate derived amount (RDA) due to being contracted out of SERPS. I do of course receive an occupational pension (although I worry about how long that may last if Reform come to power, cause a City meltdown as Truss did and pension funds fail as a result with no quantitative easing to save them this time - but that's another discussion).

As the expression goes - It’s complicated. The letter I requested and received from DWP asking for an explanation of how my SP is calculated runs to nine pages!

I don’t know, but I suspect the four year difference in the number of years required to get full bSP (39) or full nSP (35) is to do with changing lifestyles. The single tier pension is all anyone who entered the workplace after 5 April 2016 will receive. It’s more likely that they will enter the workplace at age 21 after university compared to previous generations who may have entered the workplace at 14, 15 or 16.

Yes like you I started work at 15, have paid 44 years of NI & am hoping I can make my last 3 working years to 67! I was relying on my TP occupational pension to provide a buffer, I'd struggle if that disappeared.

Great post, thanks

But we do all get extra money just for turning 80 — an extra 25p a week on our state pension!

Doodledog
I am one of the 'losers' I paid the full NI cont for the full number of years to qualify for the old state pension. I am a widow and believe there is no longer such thing as a widow's pension. This has been replaced by another paymt which is only made for 18 mths. I also retired before 2016 but do not get any of my late DH's pension so I think some of your info maybe incorrect or outdated?

In my opinion a pension is a contribution-based benefit, which (by definition) is based on contributions made over a working life.

It is a deferred payment for work done when someone was able to work, to tide them over in older age when they are no longer able to do so. It is not (or should not be considered as) a payment given to everyone over a certain age simply for getting older, which would be a ‘benefit’ in the sense of a ‘dole’ payment made out of public funds, which is what some seem to expect to be awarded.

I don’t understand why anyone thinks they should be entitled to get a payment out of public funds ‘just because’ they reach a certain age.

Charleygirl5

What irritates me is that I worked for 40 years before I retired.

Rachel also thinks it is a benefit and would like to remove it, but we each paid into it for our entire working lives.

it's classed as a benefit, if like me you're a carer for your husband ,you can't claim carers allowance, if you're retired and getting the state pension...can't get two benefits...I can't understand why it's classed as a benefit, something we paid all our working lives

Thank you, PaynesGrey

State Pension is usually based on the number of years of NIC someone has paid. The minimum required is ten years.

Women needed to pay 39 years to get a full basic State Pension (bSP). Men needed 44 years. That five year difference is because women used to get their SP at 60 while men had to wait until 65.

That has now been equalised and the current SP age is 66 for both men and women. That will rise to 67 between 2026 and 2028, and then to 68 between 2044 and 2046.

Someone age 80 or over now who only paid NIC for ten years would be entitled to £45.24 pw. That’s the current rate of full bSP of £176.50 x (10/39). For last year, 2024/25, that would have been £169.50 x (10/39) £43.46 (which is why I think the example on the gov.uk pages refer to £43).

Note. The Over 80 Pension is NOT based on NIC but will give someone a pension of £105.70 pw irrespective of why they were getting less than this. The rules say:

You can claim the over 80 pension if all of the following apply:

•you’re 80 or over

•you do not get basic State Pension or your basic State Pension is less than £105.70 a week in 2025 to 2026

•you were resident in the UK for at least 10 years out of 20 (this does not have to be 10 years in a row) - this 20 year period must include the day before you turned 80 or any day after

•you were ‘ordinarily resident’ in the UK, the Isle of Man or Gibraltar on your 80th birthday or the date you made the claim for this pension, if later

Women born after 5 April 1953 need 35 years to get a full new SP currently £230.25. Someone with only ten years of NIC will get £65.78 - £230.25 x (10/35).

Note. There is NO similar top-up provision under the new SP rules i.e. if you reached SP age after 5 April 2016. The oldest women receiving new State Pension now are 72 (born after 5 April 1953) I have not heard of any plans to introduce a similar top up for them when they reach 80.

There is Pension Credit to top someone’s income up to minimum of £227.10. No single pensioner should have an income of less than this. That is only £3.05 less than the full nSP.

There is a lot of argument over the differential in basic SP and new SP, but as Doodledog explains, that isn’t taking into account the Additional State Pension (aSP) earned through paying into SERPS/SSP. That contribution scheme was abolished in 2016.

As others have said, nor does it take into the account the women who were expecting to receive their SP at 60 and had to wait (and work) up to another six years. I calculate I “lost” £40,000 due to that.

Nor (as DD says) does it take into account the much more generous spousal SP inheritance provisions for older pensioners. Some will have inherited both their husbands bSP and aSP. This chart and further links explain:

www.lcp.com/en/our-impact/inherited-state-pensions-for-widows-and-widowers

With spousal inheritance it is possible to receive a pension under the old system of well in excess of £300 pw even close to £400 pw.

Under the nSP provisions you can still inherit up to 50% of a spouses aSP but not if you were widowed before the age of 55 as I was. The rules for younger widowers are brutal. If I live to 83, I will have lost over £25,000 due to that. Because I was widowed at 51 I currently receive £25 week less pension than someone who was widowed at 55 based on exactly the same spousal SERPS.

Former Pensions Minister under the Coalition government Steve Webb, the architect of the single tier pension, and Moneybox’s Paul Lewis have both explained that the ultimate aim of the single tier pension (nSP) was that it would be cheaper in the long run for the government. That’s borne out by this article from Paul Lewis:

archive.is/20250103205152/https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/money/pensions-and-retirement/why-younger-pensioners-bigger-state-pension-paul-lewis-3458070

As he says there: Three million old state pensioners get more than the standard £221.20 a week the (then) new state pension. So comparing just the basic pensions of £221.20 and £169.50 is misleading. Most people get more or less than those standard amounts.

In answer to silverlinings question. If you work more than the maximum number of years needs to get a full pension you won’t get any more pension for it. I worked and paid NIC for 50 years. Only 35 count. I still don’t get a full SP due to a large rebate derived amount (RDA) due to being contracted out of SERPS. I do of course receive an occupational pension (although I worry about how long that may last if Reform come to power, cause a City meltdown as Truss did and pension funds fail as a result with no quantitative easing to save them this time - but that's another discussion).

As the expression goes - It’s complicated. The letter I requested and received from DWP asking for an explanation of how my SP is calculated runs to nine pages!

I don’t know, but I suspect the four year difference in the number of years required to get full bSP (39) or full nSP (35) is to do with changing lifestyles. The single tier pension is all anyone who entered the workplace after 5 April 2016 will receive. It’s more likely that they will enter the workplace at age 21 after university compared to previous generations who may have entered the workplace at 14, 15 or 16.

Sorry about the typos. I can't find my glasses

Presumably you saw my post before writing yours, Molly? Look at the timings.

So your opening line that 'you will be sure to be told xxx' is disingenuous, as you knew that I had said that before you posted.

I may be wrong, but my understanding is that you are younger than me? You have claimed to be working in th teaching profession until very recently (or maybe you still are?)

If not, and if you are someone on the old pension (which I doubt), why do you think you should have had six more years of payments than someone born a bit later? Of course it was not your fault if that happened - none of us can influence government policy. But if you have had six years' more pension than others, how do you explain to them why that is fair, but they difference in payments is not?

Crocus5

I just don’t see how this gap can be justified, as those on the old
state pension have the same expenses- we have to pay the same amount for food, gas, electricity etc. as those getting £50.00 a week more.

Yes but you’re sure to be told that you’ve been receiving your pension for longer.

Those on the old pension should have been saving up so they can cope with paying the same prices as those in the new pension.

How could you have been so careless as to not anticipate that?

Then you’ll be told, depending on what you read,
either that your payments were paying for those already retired, not into a savings pot for you,
or that you’ll only get what you paid in.

Whichever you believe, you’ll still be paying today’s prices with a smaller pension than others get and it’s just tough. It won’t be a focus for this government, or the previous or the next one, because pensioners have no value, anre expendable and will probably die soon anyway.