Dutch Election

I’m sorry, I’ve reported this and asked HQ to move this thread to News and Politics but nothing has happened. I’ll try again.

Quite so.

I do wish people would listen when the general public say er we dont agree with this, what you believe is not what I believe, and calling us stupid is not going to make us amenable to your point of view.

Whitewavemark2

It appears that he did what many on the far right do in order to win votes - he has moderated his language considerably in order to win the right of centre more moderate voter.

I do wish people would give it more thought and be far more sceptical when listening to these people.

It has happened time and again over the years, and yet people never seem to learn.

Oh yes - he toned it down... "there are more important things" I think he said, or something similar.

Extremism seems to be taking hold slowly.

Largely the fault of governments who are fully cognisant of problems (in all areas) but choose easy, short-term, headline-grabbing options, to deal with them, rather than the root causes. Which ultimately of course don't solve the problem(s)... and resentment builds. On both the Right and the Left.

Depressing.

It appears that he did what many on the far right do in order to win votes - he has moderated his language considerably in order to win the right of centre more moderate voter.

I do wish people would give it more thought and be far more sceptical when listening to these people.

It has happened time and again over the years, and yet people never seem to learn.

Its good our government is controlling our borders so well.

pascal30

he's also proposing banning the Koran.. imagine the uproar there would be if he did that

The Koran, intrinsically, is not the problem.

It's how it has been hijacked to fit an agenda. And that is what he needs to address.

The Dutch have/had the most efficient farming industry in the world.
Europe (low emissions of course) is its chief customer.
There has been a long term push to buy out farmers (who have been farming their land for eons) and make legislation to restrict farming as they know it.

There is a mega city already planned for the site.
The gov feels this is the way to house the immigrants.
A lot of the public dont agree.
Their homes can be bought up by the gov (as happened with the farms) at prices dictated by the gov.

So perhaps that's a part of the reason why they voted this way?

The Netherlands of all places, who suffered so terribly under the Nazis. So true that people who fail to learn from the mistakes of history are condemned to repeat them.

he's also proposing banning the Koran.. imagine the uproar there would be if he did that

Galaxy

Because large sections of the population dont agree with the prevailing narrative on immigration and other issues.

Agreed. And they haven't agreed with it for decades. I've just read the "rivers of blood" speech in full. Powell's comments on integration still apply, and the politicians have learned nothing - 65 years on.

I’m not at all surprised. I thought it would be Sweden who voted this way first. They have awful migration problems.

You're quite right Dickens. We have a responsibility to make sure that people who come to live here understand how they should integrate into society and also learn English (all of them, not just the children at school). It's only fair to do so, rather than just dumping them and letting them get on with it. If they don't see that women have rights here, then they need to be told. We can't expect instant understanding of what may be a very different culture from the one some immigrants are used to, and it is up to us to help the understanding to develop.

foxie48

He's described as an Anti- Islam Populist with very hard line attitudes to immigration. He uses inflammatory language and has called Islam an ideology of retarded culture. There's a huge difference in discussing sensible immigration controls and what he proposes. He spreads hatred I'm not surprised Europe is worried, people like him make me worry!

There's a huge difference in discussing sensible immigration controls and what he proposes.

Agree.

It should be possible to discuss the subject rationally. But deliberate inflammatory language immediately precludes that possibility.

Immigration is a problem with insufficient infrastructure to support it - and that doesn't appear to be a problem solely experienced by the UK.

The cultural issues are a different matter. And one where, again, inflammatory language doesn't help. But neither does ignoring the fact that some from different cultures don't accept the culture - the freedoms, especially those freedoms that women enjoy, in their chosen country.

Germany had a problem some years ago in this respect, and had to institute 'civic classes' where some men were taught about the constitutional rights of women. To put it delicately. We can't pretend this is not a problem - it may not be huge - but it is a problem. And when we ignore it - it fuels the hatred and inflammatory language (and worse) from the extreme Right.

I expect that the silent majority voted for him who are upset about how their country and population has/is changing.

Oh I see, I must have pressed wrong button. Stupid me! I’ll ask for it to be moved.

But why would this subject be in meet ups?
I don’t understand.
Surely it’s political?

He's described as an Anti- Islam Populist with very hard line attitudes to immigration. He uses inflammatory language and has called Islam an ideology of retarded culture. There's a huge difference in discussing sensible immigration controls and what he proposes. He spreads hatred I'm not surprised Europe is worried, people like him make me worry!

And that's the other part. Because 'open discussion' is mostly regarded as racist and xenophobic.

Even having a discussion on this small site, soon becomes fraught with problems.

Urmstongran

Sending shockwaves across Europe.

Good.

Governments and powers that be need to realise they can only push people so far.
Though, quite frankly, I wouldnt trust higher ups not to necessarly, not want wars.

Sending shockwaves across Europe.

LauraNorderr

While we can’t voice concerns over a growing population and a shrinking infrastructure without facing cries of racism, xenophobia and lack of compassion some will turn to the right out of frustration.
Open discussion and serious solutions may help to bring back balance.

While we can’t voice concerns over a growing population and a shrinking infrastructure without facing cries of racism, xenophobia and lack of compassion some will turn to the right out of frustration.

That's part of the problem.

Open discussion and serious solutions may help to bring back balance.

And that's the other part. Because 'open discussion' is mostly regarded as racist and xenophobic.

It starts with the infrastructure.

It is very unlikely he will be PM as none of the other parties will work with him and the Dutch always have a coalition government.

There's a real problem with housing in Holland according to the BBC News article I just read.

Social housing is limited and renting is becoming more and more difficult, partly because of high rents.

I suspect that's part of the reason - people feel that they cannot accommodate - literally -more people with an already overstretched market.

Immigration is a real problem - and it's not going to end any time soon - for the whole of Europe. If you couple that with the rising cost of living, it's obvious that people are going to lurch towards parties that promise a solution.

Maddy, an interesting topic, thanks for posting but are you aware it’s in ‘meet ups’.
Perhaps you would like to ask GNHQ to move it.