Dutch Election

fancythat

They want to shut them down, is what I thought.

Most people realise that fewer farms[I think it is 3000 the EU agreed could be bought and shut down], results in less food.
Let alone the impact to farmers and many other industries/small businesses, relying on farmers.

A lot of people do not agree in compulsory purchase either.

I hadn’t heard of the Dutch wanting to “shut down “ farms, farming certainly does produce its share of pollution but if farms are reduced where is food going to be produced.

The UK has encouraged farmers to take land out of production for environmental reasons, if net zero is to be reached, we still have to eat. If net zero in the UK means we import more food it does nothing for climate change, it adds emissions due to transport cost

Galaxy

You are I think at least 15 years too late. You have politicians so divorced from what the general public think and I would put the media alongside that. It is quite dangerous when that is the case. I dont know a great deal about the Dutch situation but I imagine its a reflection of what has happened elsewhere. The left and the centre so divorced from the concerns of large sections of the population. I am not having a go at you whitewave, it's just so frustrating.

The higher ups forget the silent majority.
There tends to be enough silent majority nowadays, to skew voter polls.
Many keep quiet, but will say what they are really thinking when they come to vote.

They want to shut them down, is what I thought.

Most people realise that fewer farms[I think it is 3000 the EU agreed could be bought and shut down], results in less food.
Let alone the impact to farmers and many other industries/small businesses, relying on farmers.

A lot of people do not agree in compulsory purchase either.

maddyone

I actually started the thread to ask about why Geert Wilbers has been so much more successful in this election than in previous ones in Holland. I have always thought the Dutch to be a very tolerant race (not sure race is the right word, but you know what I mean.) My experience of Dutch people is that they are generally friendly, tolerant, and accepting of others. So what has happened? I did see a report about farming, and it was claimed the current government are contemplating buying up houses and farms forcibly in order to use the land to achieve a net zero target. Maybe they are wanting to use the land for more wind farms or solar farms. I thought someone on here might know a bit more about that. Whether or not he’s been elected because of high immigration I’m not sure, but again, maybe someone else knows more.

One of the reasons they want to buy up farms is the pollution dense farming creates . Stupidly, years ago they pushed for more farming without realising its consequences to the environment .

maddyone

Thank you for outlining the history more comprehensively Dickens.
It seems successive governments were at fault then, not just the Thatcher government.

I agree

And, again, Labour did not tackle the problem. In fact, by Thatcher's final year - her government had built more council housing than Labour did in their 13 years in power, apparently.

Very interesting, Dickens

halfpint1

Even after living in France for a long time I still use British customs with my family and my French grandchildren are being brought up with them.
I imagine any immigrant family does so.

Indulging your native customs and habits is one thing and I'm sure you're right about immigrant families.

But, are you hostile to your host country's culture and laws at the same time?

Probably not!

maddyone

Thank you for outlining the history more comprehensively Dickens.
It seems successive governments were at fault then, not just the Thatcher government.

I was never a fan of Thatcher. At all. But I like to keep as close as possible to the facts (and that's not always easy) so, no, it's certainly not all down to her. In fact, if you do any research - her idea wasn't original, it had been 'brewing' for some years within Tory circles.

It was a policy looking for someone to implement it!

Even after living in France for a long time I still use British customs with my family and my French grandchildren are being brought up with them.
I imagine any immigrant family does so.

Thank you for outlining the history more comprehensively Dickens.
It seems successive governments were at fault then, not just the Thatcher government.

maddyone

I can see why Thatcher’s government thought it was a good idea to sell council houses to people in the 80s and make them into property owners. I didn’t have a view on it then as too busy bringing up children, but I now can see that it has caused a huge problem. I suspect that the original idea was that councils would then build more council houses for those that couldn’t afford to buy, with the funds raised by the sale of houses. Buy this didn’t happen and now we have a huge problem of insufficient housing.

I suspect that the original idea was that councils would then build more council houses for those that couldn’t afford to buy, with the funds raised by the sale of houses.

Her policy denied the right of local councils to use the money from the sales to build new homes, so that was never the original idea.

But, it's not all down to Thatcher and her "right to buy" - earlier Labour governments, strapped for cash, began to build fewer council houses.

And after the Thatcher era - Labour had the opportunity to reverse the process. But didn't.

My own theory is that Margaret Thatcher, in order to deal with the unions' stranglehold, wanted to destroy the cohesion of the working class by creating an individualistic society where everyone looked out for themselves. Hence the destruction also of the large industries which harboured the close-knit working class. But that's an argument for another time.

And, again, Labour did not tackle the problem. In fact, by Thatcher's final year - her government had built more council housing than Labour did in their 13 years in power, apparently.

So,,, !!

Callistemon21

I don't think they were allowed to use the proceeds to build more council houses.

That was the mistake.

Ahhh, I see.
Yes, a mistake.

Callistemon21

^And, the prices are beyond many people's means - especially those on meaner incomes?^

Somebody's buying them! I think sales slowed up with the increase in mortgage rates, according to a Sales Director we know.

There is always a proportion of social housing included. Probably not as much as is needed, nor any suitable housing for older people wanting to downsize.

There is always a proportion of social housing included. Probably not as much as is needed, nor any suitable housing for older people wanting to downsize.

I'm guessing here - because I've no reliable figures to look at and don't have the time to research them - that the "proportion" of social housing included is most definitely not as much as is needed!

And that's something I hadn't thought of - housing for those retirees who want to downsize, which is something we're frequently encouraged to do as a solution to solving the housing problem for families.

Dickens, and those cultural attitudes may well be passed on to children who weren’t immigrants, but were born in the U.K.

Why else, I wonder, would the young boys - no more than 10 or 11 - children of Asian Muslim parents who lived across the street from student dd1 in Nottingham, have been in the habit of shouting ‘Dirty white whore!’ at dd and her female housemates?

To be fair I just ignore the term far right now when its bandied about, in the same way I ignore 'nazis', it has been rendered utterly meaningless .

MaizieD

Namsnanny

MaizieD

I meant to add that our governments have allowed our infrastructure to degrade and the far right have used that to prey on people's fears by demonising immigrants as being responsible for the shortcomings of the infrastructure.

For those of you who can access twitter, this is exemplified by this Leave advert run during the referendum campaign, which blames our infrastructure deficiencies on uncontrolled immigration.

Galaxy says that governments have ignored the concerns of citizens, but you have to wonder what is influencing those concern..

Their own intelligence I would think.

I wonder why £millions is spent on advertising if it has no effect in influencing people, then.

Never bought fairy liquid in my life.

Doesn't mean I'm any more or less aware of it, just I still have free choice to use my brain.

I don't think they were allowed to use the proceeds to build more council houses.

That was the mistake.

I can see why Thatcher’s government thought it was a good idea to sell council houses to people in the 80s and make them into property owners. I didn’t have a view on it then as too busy bringing up children, but I now can see that it has caused a huge problem. I suspect that the original idea was that councils would then build more council houses for those that couldn’t afford to buy, with the funds raised by the sale of houses. Buy this didn’t happen and now we have a huge problem of insufficient housing.

And, the prices are beyond many people's means - especially those on meaner incomes?

Somebody's buying them! I think sales slowed up with the increase in mortgage rates, according to a Sales Director we know.

There is always a proportion of social housing included. Probably not as much as is needed, nor any suitable housing for older people wanting to downsize.

Callistemon21

Good post, Terribull

However, one thing that constantly puzzles me:

Each successive government promises they will embark on a massive building programme, but they never deliver

Wherever we go there seems to be a huge amount of house building going on, large estates of small to large size family homes which presumably include, by law, a proportion of affordable or social housing too.

No sooner are these homes completed, than they are sold

No sooner are these homes completed, than they are sold

I notice the same.

Do you think it's because we are so far behind with housebuilding that we are simply not catching up, let alone keeping up?

And, the prices are beyond many people's means - especially those on meaner incomes?

High private-sector rents make it difficult for many to save for a deposit?

The destruction of affordable social housing to rent provided by LAs was a disaster IMO.

... in more ways than one. Because now government encourages the belief that immigration is the cause - not their previous (and current) policy.

Namsnanny

MaizieD

I meant to add that our governments have allowed our infrastructure to degrade and the far right have used that to prey on people's fears by demonising immigrants as being responsible for the shortcomings of the infrastructure.

For those of you who can access twitter, this is exemplified by this Leave advert run during the referendum campaign, which blames our infrastructure deficiencies on uncontrolled immigration.

Galaxy says that governments have ignored the concerns of citizens, but you have to wonder what is influencing those concern..

Their own intelligence I would think.

I wonder why £millions is spent on advertising if it has no effect in influencing people, then.

The most recent government statistics, released in November 2023, showed there were 261,189 long-term empty properties in England. That figure represents a rise of 12,556 homes compared to 2022, up 5% annually and 16% since before the pandemic in 2019.

Why?

Good post, Terribull

However, one thing that constantly puzzles me:

Each successive government promises they will embark on a massive building programme, but they never deliver

Wherever we go there seems to be a huge amount of house building going on, large estates of small to large size family homes which presumably include, by law, a proportion of affordable or social housing too.

No sooner are these homes completed, than they are sold

Global warning has had a huge affect on migration.
What angers me,is, there are ways to help these countries who are suffering from drought. But unfortunately the will is not there.

Yes, yes and yes, MeryStreep

I haven't read your link yet but I will.

My repeated question is: If we can transport oil and gas across continents, can send satellites and spacecrafts to even outer planets, why can we not pipe water to where it is needed?

The answer, of course, could be due to conflict in their countries, which causes people to flee too.
So why do we allow this? What is the point of an international peacekeeping force?

MaizieD

I meant to add that our governments have allowed our infrastructure to degrade and the far right have used that to prey on people's fears by demonising immigrants as being responsible for the shortcomings of the infrastructure.

For those of you who can access twitter, this is exemplified by this Leave advert run during the referendum campaign, which blames our infrastructure deficiencies on uncontrolled immigration.

Galaxy says that governments have ignored the concerns of citizens, but you have to wonder what is influencing those concern..

Their own intelligence I would think.

Unfortunately being labelled racist or far right happens even on this site. The reason is it closes people down quickly and easily.