this government

Love it, JessM.

Nick: Can I run an idea past you Dave, you know, that idea that I would get the royal succession changed, you know so women did not get sidelined, it was a nice idea but you know, getting all the commonwealth countries to do it at the same time, well, basically i think we need to let that one die quietly, so I've been thinking about other exciting ideas to make the coalition popular with voters, so how about...
Dave: well go on
Nick: Well how about we give out all those bank shares to the population. share owning democracy and all that. remember how the old battleaxe got lots of cred for selling off council houses and selling the utilities?
Dave: Great idea Nick. Get on with it. Off you go.
Exit Nick, wagging tail
Aide: why the xxxx did you to agree to that Dave? It's an insane idea. Imagine the costs of distributing dividends for a start. Mrs Edna Winterbottom owns 10 shares. A dividend of 2p is issued. It would cost several quid to get the 20p to Mrs W. The banks would never be solvent again. And don't we need to sell those shares when the price is high enough to, you know, pay of some of our debt?
Dave (sniggering): well it keep him busy for a couple of weeks. How are you doing on that list of other "bright ideas" . Doing well so far. Keep feeding them through. He obviously thinks he came up with them himself.

Well, we individuals can't win. I remember the Japanese economy being in trouble years ago - because people were saving not spending!!

From what I have picked up, the GFC was caused by bankers' greed, the fraudulent accounting of some mega businesses, and government failure to reign them all in.

I will never understand economics. However, I feel safer because I can grow a lot of my food in my garden, and I have a little flock of chickens who are good layers. Also, we have our basic state pension, which covers our needs. We never had investments so we had nothing to lose.

How much of this has been caused by people living on credit, I wonder. Apart from my mortgage I've never owed money on anything [apart from my car, which was 0 % finance over 3 years, and I had the money in the bank to cover it if I had to..it was meant to be in the bank earning interest, duuuh]. Surely if people buy things with money they haven't got, something has got to give, and encouraging people to spend money they haven't got isn't a good idea, high interest rates or not? But, what do I know, I'm not a banker.....

I think the thing about government debt – which does exist (pace grannyactivist) – is that it's all been lumped together. It's rather like lumping together an individual's mortgage – carefully planned debt (or should be) to fund a major capital expense over an extended period of time – and credit card debt – reckless and casual spending with no properly specific repayment dates, easily increased limits and high rates of interest. None of this is helped by Gordon Brown's famous off-the-books financing of capital projects with ill-thought out contracts. That said, let us never forget the disaster of casino banking and Northern Rock's virtual ponzy scheme.

It's the same the whole world over
Ain't it all a bleenin' shame?

It's the rich what gets the gravy and the poor what gets the blame.

Have now TWICE lost my carefully composed contributions to this discussion and am feeling a bit hot under the collar about the subject.
The Governor of the Bank of England is on record as stating that it was the BANKERS, not the previous government who caused the current financial crisis. If this government taxed the BANKER's profits by a miniscule amount we could be out of this mess in no time flat. Ideology, not sound fiscal sense, is driving this government's policy decisions. Georgette, as a member of the public I am NOT stupid, ignorant or ill-informed; on the contrary, I have spent a great deal of time researching this issue. The fact is that I'm not refusing to take anything on board; I just disagree with your assumptions.

Agree with JessM. No way was this mess all the fault of the Labour government - it is a global issue. Labour now being taken to task for profligate spending but none of us stood up at the time and argued against new schools, hospitals etc. Yes we can complain about other things like increased spending on welfare benefits to those we see as undeserving but let's be honest enough to admit that we did actually benefit from at least some of what they did!

Hi Georgette.
There is certainly a big mess to sort out.
I am fed up with them blaming labour rather than bankers, american mortgage lenders and everyone that spent more than we earned during the boom years and think that labour were marginally more equipped to sort out things as they had more experience.
I fear we are going to get an second hammering courtesy of the non-taxpaying and consequently bankrupt nations of the Eurozone. Our banks are exposed to Greece and Ireland. We are part owners of some of these. And no doubt pension funds are involved somewhere along the line. I don't think Frau Merkel bargained for this lot. Any more than "Dave" did when he decided it would be a jolly wheeze to be leader of the Tory party.
What worries me is that the current lot have no experience of running anything. Being a career politician does not offer learning experiences of this nature until suddenly you are IT. Then they get batty ideas that are going to be a nightmare to implement. Civil servants don't tell em they are being daft or that they are asking for unrealistic things. I think I will stop now...

I agree that the mess has to be sorted, but we should not forget that the GFC caused much of it.
With any Tories there is always the danger that they will use a 'mess' as an excuse for ideological action, as well as necessary action.

Why do the public refuse to take on board that the country is in deep financial trouble; this surely has to be the priority of the new government? We must clear our debts, no matter how difficult it is. It could take years, so, we have to go with the flow and let the coalition get on with the job. The liberals have already stopped the Conservatives from making drastic changes. It's a pity that Labour lost power, as they should have been given the job to sort out the mess.

You can't even mention that T woman in Scotland!

Pause to remember the Thatcher years. Adopt Rodin's "Thinker" position for mo. It was pretty darn grim as i recall. Makes this "recession" look like a bash in a champagne bar... but wait... I was living in S Wales for some of the time. I don't think that recession ever ended if you go west of Bridgend. You can get a distorted view here in the south east.

Nobody should be surprised: it's what tories do. The idea of any kind of state welfare provision is abhorrent to them.

What the Tories call reforms, should more properly called deforms.

Ah it was always so much easier when there was a clear left and right wing in UK politics. Now Blair had nicked all the best Tory ideas and the coalition just want to make cuts, sorry, "reforms" , while still being the nice guys.

Ah it was always so much easier when there was a clear left and right wing in UK politics. Now Blair had nicked all the best Tory ideas and the coalition just want to make cuts, while still being the nice guys.

Very worrying isn't it!!!

Annobel - yet again you voice my thoughts. Did a double-take this morning to check that it was indeed A. Mitchell with Andrew Marr. Had to reassure myself that it probably is ok to agree with a Tory politician occasionally but the experience did come as a shock!

Against my usual inclinations, I have just been rather impressed by Andrew Mitchell, the Secretary for International Development, on the Andrew Marr Show, putting forward the case for the Coalition aid budget! Should be 0n i-player if you're interested.

One of the things Ireland and Greece have in common is a low tax take and look where that got them. Bundles of Euros changing hands. People doing favours for each other. In the States they are proud of their low taxes, but they have very patchy education system and health care for the less wealthy is pretty dire or non existent. They also have families sleeping rough on the streets. That is what happens if you don't have a social welfare network. My friend adopted 3 children from this kind of background.

On the subject of taxation I do think though t is hard on young families that the cost of childcare is not tax deductible.

Well done Baggy, Annobel ... I really can't believe that some people think that everything costs nothing. ok I don't always agree with how things are worked out, especially council tax, but at the end of the day, taxes pay for necessary services, and Britain would be a far worse place without them.

baggythecrust and Annobel...what a wonderful way you have with words that convey common sense. Why can't we have the likes of you both to sort out the sorry mess and put the Great back into Britain.

Well said baggythecrust and notsogrand! I agree with both of you.