Decade of austerity in order to pay price of an 'ageing population'

A different thought - is it really our generation that has had it all?

As a girl, I had to work really hard to pass the 11-plus (apparently there were fewer places reserved for girls on the grounds that boys were then thought to be cleverer!), and, when I got to grammar school, I found that as a working class child, I felt really out of place. My husband reports the same feeling.

I think I underachieved at grammar school (at least I have achieved much more since!), and it did not lead to college or university - there were very few university places available then, anyway. As a result, I was ready to marry and have children early - my choice, I know, but there didn't seem to be many other choices that were acceptable.

We were poor when we had children - not starving, of course, but poor enough to worry about how we were going to pay the bills, and get new clothes and so on for our children. My husband was low paid, and I, having no reasonable options for child care (unless you had a handy relative, there weren't many options then), just took on unskilled, rather unpleasant jobs when we were desperate. It wasn't until I was 40 that I decided to go to university, and finally, years after that, I have a good, well-paid job. Not for long, though. I shall have to retire in a few years, and I have only a small pension to look forward to because of my limited years of service.

On the other hand, my daughters went to a comprehensive school, where they soon found their level; on to sixth form college, passed sufficient A-levels, and smoothly proceeded to the university of their choice - all paid for by the state, of course, at that point. As a result, both were able to take reasonably paid professional jobs, buy (or at least take a mortgage on) their own homes; marry and have children when they were ready, and continue, to this day with their career (albeit part time for the present). Their husbands followed similar routes and now they have lovely homes; no money worries; a bright future and good (still) pensions awaiting them when they retire.

Anyway, my point is not to write my lifestory, still less to complain. I am delighted that my girls have a better lifestyle than I had.

No, the point is that it is not our generation that "had it all" - it is the generation after us - todays 40+ year olds. Like David Cameron and most of his friends.

Is there a moral there?

Well said Jangran.

I do not have any information about what paedophiles do and do not get, but I warn again - watch out for DIVIDE AND RULE.

Paedophiles, however appalling their behaviour, are not responsible for the current economic circumstances, and they, like the rest of us have the rights of a human being.

Particularly if there is any chance of them getting to understand the reasons for their terrible actions, and desist from them in future - it would be worth a few tech toys.

Blame the market; blame governments, but please do not blame particular groups or individuals, however offensive you think them or their activities.

In case anyone is interested, I know for a fact that paediophiles in psychiatric care have "spending money" of several hundred pounds a month, which goes on tech toys, while nurses and other health care workers, many of whom are grandparents, in a full time job, are fighting to pay for basics like food and heat.

Monster Raving Looney Party perhaps [I'm not being rude saying this as I had/have a lot of time for the OMRLP, having explained once to a French student that we had a party called the Social Democrats that were brought down by the OMRLP, and some of their manifesto sounds very sensible; introducing a 99p coin to save on change and refusing to join the euro but inviting everyone to join the pound*]. I didn't watch the third part of Made in Britain as I switched on the telly to find a programme about British artists which I had to watch. I must catch it on iplayer.*there's my credibility gone out the window.....

Thanks for your vote but sorry, no party would have me - I'd never toe any one party line.

Interesting points you raise.

Gadabout.Just read your first post having read the latest one. What sense you talk...if only you were a politician. But then I always agree with anyone that blames Mrs T for anything.The Thatcher years were dire for me with constant threat of unemployment and fear of having to relocate to somewhere I didn't want to live. I watched part of a programme last night about Britain and where we stand in the world as far as trade went and it seems that what we are now are great innovators..we think things up and get other countries to make them for us. Was fascinated to hear how Glaxo made their money by fast forwarding the development of penicillin during the Second World War and Pilkingtons developed a world beating way of making glass. What did concern me is that the places that are at the forefront of such developments are the Universities [which no one will be able to afford to go to in the future] and companies that need to borrow vast sums of money for research projects. I think there's a second part to the programme which I need to see [and possibly re watch the first one at a time when I'm not half asleep].

I see Alvin Hall,an American financial adviser & educator, b 1953, is joining in the intergenerational debate on Radio 4 (Weds at 3pm, repeated Sats at midday) 'Poorer than their Parents'. He has found a lack of optimism amongst the young but surely this only started in the last 4 years with the varous financial crises? I bet they were optimistic when economies were expanding. Isn't their pessimism partly due to their lack of experience of the down turns, unlike we babyboomers who have seen harder times. I remember many people in the 70s not being able to get jobs, even as teachers. and youth unemployment was a major problem in the 80s when I was a youth worker.

Ruth Lea, the economist, argues that the intergenerational divide can be overstated & the problem is more about changes in expectations such as the right to a university education which increases the taxpayer's burden. Nowadays people expect to have their house furnished and kitchens replaced when they move in whereas many of us lived with what was there or with bare floorboards and hand-me-down furniture. She points a finger at G Brown who she believes exacerbated the entitlement culture. I also blame the Thatcher years for massive changes in attitude amongst the young to 'have it all, now, never mind society'.

Hall defines baby boomers as those born between 1946 and 1962. However, as a late 40s baby, I feel quite different in experience and attitude from those born in the late 50s & 60s - does anyone else? If we are in the blame game, should we blame our parents for making up for their lost war years and having so many of us after the war?

isnt it funny we grew up changing everything (as it seemed)
For the future of out children throwing off the shackles from out parents and the war years and making life easier and better for them.
Now we are the enemy perhaps they should have grown up with the many constraints we had............and the austerity, to be able to understand us.

Nice rant Gadabout gran, successive governments since the late 1940's have had time to work out that the "baby boomers" were going to reach retirement at the same time. Not one of them has made any plans to deal with it. Many women of our generation didn't have the chance of a job with a pension scheme, like many others I fitted in what ever job I could get around my family and finally had to give up the best job I had to look after my parents. It wasn't until I was in my fifties that I started running my own business and realised what could have been if equal opportunities and childcare had started earlier.

Although at 83 years of age my mum is too old to be a Babyboomer, she is perplexed by the mixed messages coming from the govt. On the one hand she is regularly exhorted to attend her GP's surgery for checkups and health advice but on the other hand she reads in the papers that she's a nuisance to the country, costing a fortune, so really, it would be much more convenient for them if she was dead.

I think she has a point!

The world is increasingly toxic. (think nuclear radiation into the seas. the fish and ultimately us, think nuclear radiation and heavy metals into the air, falling on the fields and ultimately us. Numbers of people with a cancer diagnosis are on the increase.
Methinks our generation (post war babies with access to free health care and school milk for a start) MAY be the fittest and that from now on healthiness will be on the decrease.

The world of young people is divided. I am shocked how much some kids have at an early age. I won't go on... but those with wealthier parents seem to be growing up with no concept of how little a typical graduate pay packet (around 17k maybe for an office job - or could be less in a call centre say) will buy.
At the other end of the scale those growing up on benefits have very few things or experiences. In our school (where I am governor) many never have any holidays or days out. One class of 13 year olds did not know that the "tube" referred to the London Underground, despite the fact that we are only 40 miles from the capital. It is not unusual to see kids in school with shoes falling apart.

Good point Liz08. Younger people do not seem to be able to go without the latest gadgets and upgrades for flashy phones etc. I was in a cafe the other day and a young man (around 17ish) at the next table had a laptop open on the table, reading from a kindle and texting on a flashy phone at the same time. Hello - it is no wonder you have no money for the deposit for a house or flat.
I love what technology has done for us all but it is overkill with most people. Constantly checking emails on mobile phones, texting and calling friends are stopping them actually interacting with other people.
If the younger generation stopped spending money on the next 'must have' gadget and saved it instead it would give them more options in later life.
I was brought up to save, not have credit, pay into a pension and not replace things on a whim. I now have a large mortgage free house, money in the bank and a good pension. I retired at 53 and have spent my retirement so far on holidays and fun.
I have worked all my life and I am not going to apologise to anyone for my present lifestyle which has been achieved by living sensibly during my working years and preparing for retirement. I have never had a credit card or debt (other than a mortgage) and not a penny in benefits. I now have my pension from the government which was provided by me paying into the system.
I am not a crotchety old woman either. When I hear people blaming us older people for all the woes in the world I just ignore it and get on with my life.

Another thought about finance - not exactly on point for this thread but I need to get it off my chest.
We need to encourage the youngsters (who are going to be so poor in the future apparently) to be more thrifty Now.

I'll bet you don't fritter your income in the following ways:

How much do you pay for your mobile phone each month? And how often do you need to upgrade it to be the latest all singing dancing model? (Even if the upgrade comes with the package, it costs money somewhere along the line).

How many take-aways/meals out do you have each week?

How many designer handbags & shoes do you own?

How much do you spend at the ultra fashionable hairdressers & nail bar?

I could go on - I haven't even mentioned how many times a week they go out but, I'll allow them that while their young (within reason).

I'm sure you get the picture. I'm not really a crabby old woman but it annoys me when I hear all this bleating on that infers we have 'robbed them of their future' while they make no effort to help themselves.

I'm climbing off my soapbox now

Don't worry JessM, Alvin Hall is brilliant and bound to be very balanced about the situation.

apparently Radio 4 is running a series on this issue of intergenerational unfairness.

Alivin Hall next weekend, Saturday midday

All said, really. We shouldn't have to justify our existence. We didn't ask for it, and we did little more than make use of the limited opportunities on offer at the time.

No, it isn't our fault. Yes, it is the fault of international finance and gungho and incompetent governments.

Yes, it is an example of divide and rule. And that is the message we need to put across. LOUDLY and FREQUENTLY

Looks like we are going to settle in for a long period of economic decline on the back of poor fiscal management in many European countries. Ireland completely broke - 2 pay cuts for public employees already. Greece in a similar mess and it appears even less likely to be grown up about it. Italy, Spain and Portugal are all very wobbly indeed and public sector in Italy for instance is not going to take it on the chin. If the Eurozone is limping along for the next twenty years it will be bad for UK.
I am mystified why, with all this going on you only get about 1 euro for the pound. Anyone understand. Must ask that fount of all such wisdom that reads the Economist in the bathroom (DH).
(is if fount of wisdom as in fountain or font as in source of holy water?)

Two additional thoughts about how baby boomers have led such privileged and cushioned lives at the expense of the next generation – and I'm sure other grans can suggest more. When I started work, the basic rate of income tax was 33% (and supertax for the ultra-rich, though not so rich as today's uber-rich was 95%. During the 1980s the interest rate on mortgages went up to around 14%. Some easy ride.

Let's not forget that this government is very talented at divide and rule. It's probably all their talented at.

Well said, gadabout.

I agree we had huge advantages - schools, free university, job opportunities, introduction of equal pay just as I started working. BUT I was horrified the other day to hear the son of a friend planning to buy an X-Box with his EMA cash. This Educational Maintenance Allowance is meant to be paid to help families to keep their children at school post-16 when they would otherwise find it hard going. It should cover basics like bus fares, lunches etc. He has just been given £150 to see him through school hols and plans to spend it on this TOY. Having worked and paid my dues all my life - and still paying income tax - I have to question this!!

Oh nice rant Gadaboutgran. Me like. Even those of us women who were lucky enough to go to university in the 50s and 60s and 70s faced huge disadvantages when it came to careers.

I felt quite affronted when David Willett's declared a few years ago that the post-war generation had benefitted from so much and he, or at least those reporting on his book/speech, made out that we had stolen the futures of the next generation. Yes, we are a very fortunate generation benefitting from the NHS, free University education, good schools (some of us), pensions at 60, no world wars (yet) etc etc., owning our own houses early (some of us). This allowed the social mobility that politicians are now trying to recreate.
What should we have done? Foreseen the future? Said no thank you to a University grant or I won't make a profit on my house in a rising market in case it looks unfair to the next generation in 40 years time?
His words have given some of the next generation the perfect excuse to blame us and shift responsibility from their own shoulders. They forget that, at least in my case, we had few of the opportunities they have had while growing up - no holidays, no TV, record player, car etc, no multiple Gap years, often no careers of our choice, lower wages than men in the same jobs, poor childcare, working hard with little time for going out, not buying things until they could be afforded, University education for only a few, no extended adolescence into your 30s, poor contraception and/or strict moral upbringings leading to the social norm for marrying early or suffering social stigma if you got pregnant if unmarried. If we went wrong anywhere it was probably wanting our kids to have opportunities and things we didn't have. Looking at the fortunes of my friends' offspring, some have more material wealth than we had, but at a greater cost to family life, while others have far less and are being rescued in the family version of the Big Society - the bank, supermarket, travel service, advice agency, childcare service etc of Mum & Dad. The changes in fortunes are a matter of fact that we all have to take responsibility for sorting out now, not a matter of blame of one generation by another. What are the current generation meant to be predicting about their children's fortunes in 30 years time? Will they be blamed for having grandparents who retired 'young' & were available for childcare?

Interestingly, I'm just back from Germany where the same arguments are being made about inter-generational injustice.

Too many grannies? What bullshit! Too many overpaid bankers and CEOs of big corporations, too many arms merchants making obscene profits by selling weapons of mass (and individual) destruction, too many "nuclear deterrents" which deter nobody and are all under the control of the US anyway. Too many millionaires in the government, who have never had to scrape to pay a bill in their entire lives. Too many royals and their myriad hangers-on. Too many dishonest or just plain incompetent politicians.
Better stop there before I start using bad language! Born just in time for WWII, worked since I was 17, paid taxes, rates, NI all my life. Raised five children, all hard-working.
Maybe I should start my own political party. How about OCWA? (Old Cows with Attitude) - do you think it would catch on?