Truancy penalties - should they be tougher?

I wouldn't expect any sensible parent to take a child out of school in the year they were taking GCSE's or A-levels - and children of that age might be responsible enough to be left at home anyway.
Few people take holidays that are longer than one or two weeks, and I don't believe those last few weeks before the summer holiday are that essential for younger children that it is going to affect their entire lives. They seem to be mainly taken up with sports days!

what a difficult subject. There are lots of childen who are absent from school for a variety of reasons, some because of laziness on both parts and some for personal and family difficulties. I have seen children, with parents, who should be in school. At a checkout the cashier asked in a friendly 'what no school today?' Mother's reply that the child wasn't well that day, but well enough to go on a large shopping trip apparently. I've seen that plenty of times. A teacher friend said that some children are always very late into school as both child and parent has watched TV to all hours and couldn't get up in time. Attending at 2.pm marks you as present that day. When my children were in primary school, there was then in my area a lot of guest houses - we just seem to have hotels now very few guest houses like there used to be. The children always took their holidays during term time as their parents couldn't during the peak season. So holidays were taken after the winter half term. The girls who worried about their mother being taken ill with her MS is so sad - that is when they should be able to ask Social Services for help or at least some home schooling.

I had a couple of occasions to take my children out of school for holidays and had no qualms about it. I needed a holiday and they were too young to leave at home, it was September, beginning of a new term, and I was last on the list for holidays because my colleagues had taken priority when they had children doing GCSEs and A levels earlier, and parents with younger children were juggling school holidays, too. If I hadn't taken the leave that had been carried over for a month after my leave year ended, I would have lost the leave and holidays too. Children and school should be accommodated where possible, but sometimes, all the variables just don't work out.

Local authorities already have the power to prosecute if they wish. To take money from child benefit automatically would be unjust. There are so many reasons why children won't (or can't) go to school. My son stopped attending school when he was 14, he had been threatened and bullied. I would have loved the school to take me to court so that I could publicize the problem. They didn't of course. And not attending school does not mean that a child can't achieve. My son is now at uni doing an MA.

P.S. When we first discussed this, I made it clear that I thought parents should be able to take their children out of school for holidays.
I really don't mind taking flak when it is justified, but I would be glad if people made sure of their facts before castigating me.

That is a difficult issue. As a teacher, I was flabbergasted when kids where taken away from school for several weeks at a time, just before GCSE's or other major exams- because it was cheaper. Or to go to the hairdresser, shopping, whatever. Often parents asked me to spend several hours preparing work for the child to take away to do during the hols, so they wouldn't fall behind (only to find that they didn't do the work anyway). There are some very irresponsible parents out there, sadly. And I suppose fining them won't really help. Often the children had special needs, and huge efforts were made by staff to keep them on track, only to find their efforts wasted due to time taken off. FlicketyB there are of course special cases as you describe - but in most cases I've come across, it was just to find a cheaper deal to Disneyland or Benidorm - and the children paid a high price in their education on their return. Can you imagine taking kids away from school for 2 weeks just before GCSEs?

Where I live now, parents are definitely given steep fines for taking kids away from school, and even prison in some cases. Tough I agree, but parents do seem to respect the education of their children more here.

nelliedeane just read your first post, I am so sorry and wish you and your family well. As far as teens are concerned, I imagine it would be pretty difficult for most parents to manhandle them into school, so I don't know what the solution to that would be. I think it has to be said that some schools provide a very toxic environment, a friend of mine couldn't get her 13 year old to go to school for a whole year as he was having a hard time not fitting in with what his classmates considered "the norm", in addition he hated the way a large portion of the lesson was lost to the teacher/s maintaining some semblance of order. She finally got her ex partner, after many months of their son being absent from school, to agree, most reluctantly to stump up the fees for a small quirky private school where there is an emphasis on treating the pupil as an individual and he seems to have settled there happily. As far as taking children out of school for holidays, when ours were in primary, we did it all the time, particularly towards the end of term when they rarely did anything significant. Now both in their twenties, the youngest one in his final year at university,they have both mentioned, without me prompting them, that they considered our family holidays to be far more educational than anything they did at school and I have absolutely no regrets in taking them out of school on these occasions.

Blimey, FlicketyB, you make some sweeping deductions, don't you? I was merely quoting from the article. Talk about walking on eggshells!
I am sure nothing I have ever posted could possibly lead anyone to believe that I had any kind of agenda against the less privileged members of society. The term of abuse usually used against me is that I am a leftie - which I am proud to admit.

Greatnan I quote from your contribution 'the government has dropped the idea of automatic fines for parents who take children on holiday in term time, beause of pressure from middle class parents. It is to be left to the discretion of the headteacher.' I get the impression that is being said in a dismissive way as if middle class parents were pulling in some special privilege.

There are parents in jobs at every level from unskilled to professional who have work patterns that make it very difficult to take holidays during school holidays. DH worked in the offshore oil industry and back in the 1970s when our children were in primary school he had a job where the amount of his annual leave he could take between April and October was contractually limited and his work frequently made any leave in that period virtually impossible. We took our family summer holiday whenever it could be fitted in, one year in early March, most years in late September. He was usually able to give me two or three days notice that he could get the next week off and I would sort out a holiday. Fortunately my children had an understanding head teacher. These restrictions on leave applied to everybody involved in the building and installation of offshore structures, whether unskilled labourers or managers.

It doesnt matter what class the parents are, the change they effected was sensible. Blanket penalties are always unjust and unfair.

Nellie and

nellie you are amazing well done

nellie...keep feeling warm and fuzzy...it's good to know that we're here for each other. All you need is love...x

thank you all you am feeling all warm and fuzzy now ...what a lovely lot you are

nellie from me to you x

nellie .

nellie - I'll second greatnan's comment.

How lucky that she has you, Nellie.

have just re-read my post and my beautiful girl died in 2004,so things have settled down after lots of awful times...and my beautiful girl although sometimes a demon is growing up to alovely young woman . ...she is now 13...and we count our blessings

thank you for your kind word all of you

thank you greatnan as they say time is a great healer and obviously you never ''get over'' the loss but you do learn to live with it,and it helps tremendously to bring my GD up to make my daughter proud of her,my heart also goes to you as my daughter didnt make a concious decision to leave us,but if there is bad feeling and a witholding of affection and contact I think I would find that hard to bear also

Nellie - so glad you found somewhere human to send the children - and sad for your loss.

I do not think that fining the parents will solve anything - they probably have no spare cash anyway.

And it is wrong to load all the fault on parents - what about the school environment? Teachers do I know struggle to maintain order and to provide a good education for children from troubled backgrounds - and they have to do this with one hand tied behind their backs by the system. Schools need to be improved so that teachers can teach a curriculum that is appropriate to their pupils in a safe, small and comfortable environment. This will probably require more cash!

Nellie, when I read your posts it makes my own loss of contact with my daughter seem quite bearable. You have been through such terrible times - I do hope things improve for you and your grand-daughter.

nellie how shocking to be treated in this way under such tragic circumstances. I hope the children have all managed to settle and start to recover from this dreadful time you have had. I know that these unusual stories are not the norm, but it doesn't excuse the callous way some people are treated by the authorities for want of a little sensitivity and thoughtfulness.

It does concern me that children holidaying in term time ''affects'' the childs education....but when we have teachers striking during critical times and disrupting their education is seen as a different matter.

your reply about the mum in a wheelchair struck a chord about lack of support,my daughter was found dead on january 3rd a saturday...on Monday 5th of january..my GD aged 4 was to start full time school,the police had been into the school on that morning to speak to the school with the head to alert them if the father turned up [he was under suspicion of murder] to activate the panic alarm. Meanwhile struggling to cope with a traumatised 4year old who witnessed much of the events and a considerable journey across town to her school,became a daily event,we where late on several occasions due to nightmares,hers and mine only 5-10 minutes we after 6 weeks where summoned by the head to the office where she had bought in a truanting officer as LO had been marked as unauthorised absences,she slated me saying it was disruptive to the class and LO education....I might add that letters where sent to me addressed to my daughter and no amount of telling the school changed that......after that we changed schools,to where both her mother and my son had gone and where treated with support,compassion,and on many occassions a hanky a shoulder and a cuppa.