Truancy penalties - should they be tougher?

I suppose it depends what they're doing when they're not in school! If they're wandering round the local shopping mall or slouching on a sofa watching Jeremy Kyle, I'd be concerned, but they're not committing crimes. Perhaos they're not interested in school and need better support. It does seem to be aimed at children living in lower social circumstances, not those in prep and private schools.

Having spent a miserable few years avoiding school, but not getting up to mischief, the thought of my parents being prosecuted and fined would have led me to think 'well, perhaps now they'll realise what I'm going through.'

When I truanted, my father would drop me off at the school gates and watch me walk in, then he would carry on to work and I would walk through the school corridors, out into the playground, and leave through the gates on an adjoining road. He never asked me why I was avoiding school.

If school had allowed me to study at home, and my parents had been supportive, I would have got my education a lot earlier. I would like to know how valuable current school education is, and by what criteria, as so many children are leaving school with little preparation for adult life and poor literacy levels.

Fining parents is not really addressing the issue of why kids play truant.

I think we spent some time discussing this when talking about whether it was O.K. for parents to take children out of school for family holidays.
I agree with bagitha - if a child is persistently truanting the school should be finding out why.
The child benefit might form an important part of the family budget - if it is reduced the children could well suffer.
I don't see how a mother can force a 6' 15-year old boy to go to school.

I think it's a ridiculous idea to take the fine money automatically from child benefit, thus making the whole family poorer. If a child is a persistent truant for whatever reason, even if they are successfully shamed into returning to school there's no guarantee (or even likelihood) that they'll learn anything. Mothers have been sent to prison in the past for not making sure their child went to school - as Carol's story proves, there is a limit to what a parent can do when the child is virtually a young adult.

am feeling really guilty just had a text from the school asking where GD is as she is not in school....the answer is she is here,my OH is at college as a mature student..he returns to college tomorrow...we all assumed that was the case for her....about to phone pupil absences and grovel...

I have been on court duty when mothers were being prosecuted for not sending their children to court (no sign of the father), and listened to the stories behind the truancy, which are many and wide-ranging. One woman arrived in a wheelchair, having been threatened with custody if she didn't arrive to be sentenced. She had advanced MS and her two daughters were scared she would die when they were at school - she wasn't physically able to force them to attend. She was given a conditional discharge (should have been an absolute discharge), but was put through 4 weeks of high anxiety about her daughters going into foster care. She had a pre-sentence report written by a probation officer. The court admonished the school for complaining about peristent truancy without contributing to any of the multi-agency meetings that had been attempted to try and help the family prior to court action. Social services decided to use this poor woman to challenge the neglectful school and bring some awareness to the process. I don't know whether she got more help after this - I hope so.

Other parents (usually mothers, fathers always seem to be missing) haven't got the education or parental skills to manage their children's education, and don't have a clue how to effect a change. Schools could bring in parents to help them learn the necessary skills to support their children to stay in school, if they aren't working. By the time the children get to 13 or 14, it becomes so difficult, and children could be diverted into more meaningful activities that will prepare them for work and adult life. School doesn't have to be academic - it can be vocational, craft-based, use volunteers from the community and place teenagers in suitable work situations that will grab their interest, and give them work experience.

Middle-class parents can afford the fines and never seem to end up in court. Their children are probably struggling with school, too - it's not just persistent absence because they're on holidays - schools just fine them and there is no further action.

My parents saw their three daughters as undeserving of an education once we could read, write and type, as they believed we would meet prospective husbands and not need to earn a living! However, by the time I had left school, they realised that my young brother also hated school, and were left with a bit of a dilemma. He got a bit more attention.

I gather from The Independent that the government has dropped the idea of automatic fines for parents who take children on holiday in term time, beause of pressure from middle class parents. It is to be left to the discretion of the headteacher.

your reply about the mum in a wheelchair struck a chord about lack of support,my daughter was found dead on january 3rd a saturday...on Monday 5th of january..my GD aged 4 was to start full time school,the police had been into the school on that morning to speak to the school with the head to alert them if the father turned up [he was under suspicion of murder] to activate the panic alarm. Meanwhile struggling to cope with a traumatised 4year old who witnessed much of the events and a considerable journey across town to her school,became a daily event,we where late on several occasions due to nightmares,hers and mine only 5-10 minutes we after 6 weeks where summoned by the head to the office where she had bought in a truanting officer as LO had been marked as unauthorised absences,she slated me saying it was disruptive to the class and LO education....I might add that letters where sent to me addressed to my daughter and no amount of telling the school changed that......after that we changed schools,to where both her mother and my son had gone and where treated with support,compassion,and on many occassions a hanky a shoulder and a cuppa.

It does concern me that children holidaying in term time ''affects'' the childs education....but when we have teachers striking during critical times and disrupting their education is seen as a different matter.

nellie how shocking to be treated in this way under such tragic circumstances. I hope the children have all managed to settle and start to recover from this dreadful time you have had. I know that these unusual stories are not the norm, but it doesn't excuse the callous way some people are treated by the authorities for want of a little sensitivity and thoughtfulness.

Nellie, when I read your posts it makes my own loss of contact with my daughter seem quite bearable. You have been through such terrible times - I do hope things improve for you and your grand-daughter.

Nellie - so glad you found somewhere human to send the children - and sad for your loss.

I do not think that fining the parents will solve anything - they probably have no spare cash anyway.

And it is wrong to load all the fault on parents - what about the school environment? Teachers do I know struggle to maintain order and to provide a good education for children from troubled backgrounds - and they have to do this with one hand tied behind their backs by the system. Schools need to be improved so that teachers can teach a curriculum that is appropriate to their pupils in a safe, small and comfortable environment. This will probably require more cash!

thank you greatnan as they say time is a great healer and obviously you never ''get over'' the loss but you do learn to live with it,and it helps tremendously to bring my GD up to make my daughter proud of her,my heart also goes to you as my daughter didnt make a concious decision to leave us,but if there is bad feeling and a witholding of affection and contact I think I would find that hard to bear also

thank you for your kind word all of you

have just re-read my post and my beautiful girl died in 2004,so things have settled down after lots of awful times...and my beautiful girl although sometimes a demon is growing up to alovely young woman . ...she is now 13...and we count our blessings

How lucky that she has you, Nellie.

nellie - I'll second greatnan's comment.

nellie .

nellie from me to you x

thank you all you am feeling all warm and fuzzy now ...what a lovely lot you are

nellie...keep feeling warm and fuzzy...it's good to know that we're here for each other. All you need is love...x

nellie you are amazing well done

Nellie and

Greatnan I quote from your contribution 'the government has dropped the idea of automatic fines for parents who take children on holiday in term time, beause of pressure from middle class parents. It is to be left to the discretion of the headteacher.' I get the impression that is being said in a dismissive way as if middle class parents were pulling in some special privilege.

There are parents in jobs at every level from unskilled to professional who have work patterns that make it very difficult to take holidays during school holidays. DH worked in the offshore oil industry and back in the 1970s when our children were in primary school he had a job where the amount of his annual leave he could take between April and October was contractually limited and his work frequently made any leave in that period virtually impossible. We took our family summer holiday whenever it could be fitted in, one year in early March, most years in late September. He was usually able to give me two or three days notice that he could get the next week off and I would sort out a holiday. Fortunately my children had an understanding head teacher. These restrictions on leave applied to everybody involved in the building and installation of offshore structures, whether unskilled labourers or managers.

It doesnt matter what class the parents are, the change they effected was sensible. Blanket penalties are always unjust and unfair.