'The thug in police uniform'. (Daily Mail today)

I suspect I have come into this too late, but I had hoped that our police force, like our armed forces were professional people who do the job set. Yes there is vioence at demos/riots and no-one is suggesting the the forces of law should allow themselves to be sitting ducks, but their training must include identifying the rent-a-mob thugs, not losing self-control and hitting out at "soft" targets. In this case there is clear evidence that the officer was in the wrong. Whether Mr Tomlinson died as a direct result of his being pushed violently and beaten would appear likely, but I am assuming that is the grey area which has led to an acquittal. Any innocent bystander could get caught up in a similar situation and where would we be in similar circumstances?
Wellington was said once to comment at the sight of the British army, "I don't know what they'll do to the enemy, but by God, they frighten me".
That is not the police force I want or deserve.
I know the police are only human, but they are also in a privileged position and charged with keeping law and order - not taking the law into their own hands.

Please don't apologise on my behalf, jeni - I feel perfectly calm and stand by everything I have said. It is not unwelcoming to disagree strongly with a point of view. And, of course, I had no way of knowing the posters with whom I disagreed were new members.

I think Greatnan and I were perfectly calm, jeni!
I do appreciate your sentiments, though.

Please folks! All calm down!!

When riots happen, it's a riot!
Common sense departs on all sides!

Ok. I personally think the previous record should have been considered, but that was a matter of judgement for the judge!

Since I'm posting this late. I think it won't be read!

Everybody is entitled to their view!

I do want to give heartfelt wellcome to our newcomers and assure them that this is not the usual wellcome we give!

Join us and enjoy!

She may have been driven by motives we know nothing about - maybe she wasn't considering our reaction.

Anagram - do you not think she knew quite well that her support of Harwood would cause a strong reaction?

Ameliaanne didn't actually threaten never to post on Gransnet again. She just said she would not be rushing to post on here again in a hurry. I hold no truck with her views on the subject of this thread, but I do think that certain posts could have been construed as confrontational.

I will never threaten to leave Gransnet,much to the dismay of some people . Even when I am accused of being overbearing (without actually being named, of course), or bullying, I am a big girl now and I can take whatever comes my way. I don't think I have ever used pejorative adjectives about any member - I try to restrict my posts to a discussion of different points of view, not the personalities of those holding them.

petallus, no one went into a strop. ameliaanne just expressed her surprise at the reaction from some members to her posts. As for 'saying how much we love them, etc.', I would have thought that applied as much to supporters of both sides.

It does seem that Harwood should have been found guilty. Even if it was only an alcoholic with an unsupportive family whom he fatally attacked [sarcasm emoticon].

I really do wish that when a poster goes into a strop and threatens never to post on Gransnet again we could just allow them to do just that and not start pleading and saying how much we love them etc. [grumpy emoticon]

Greatnan we need a bit of straightforward comment on Gransnet so keep up the good work

Oh, can we please let it drop now?

A very good point, Flickety.
I wonder when it became overbearing to state your honestly held opinion.

I understand that the judge can decide if a persons previous convictions or behaviour can be released in court as part of the evidence.

I understand that this must be used with caution, the fact that you murdered your first husband does not necessarily mean that you also murdered your second, and every crime should be judged without prejudice. However in a case like this where the accused has a long history of multiple complaints of violence, made not just by members of the public, but by fellow officers as well this should surely be admisable evidence even if none of the complaints went to court.

After the Soham murders, when it was later revealed that Ian Huntley had been the subject of several complaints of sexual misbehaviour, although none went to court, I thought it was agreed that in a case where there were multiple complaints from different sources this evidence was admissable.

ameliaAnne I took your defence of the police as exactly that - they come in for a lot of undeserved brickbats for taking on things that the general public avoid getting involved with. In this case I think the officer involved did deserve a brickbat, but was saved by his past attitude (which seems to be built-in) not being mentioned in court. Leopards and spots come to mind.

I do think, though, that you came in rather heavily against Mr Tomlinson and his family, none of whom deserved what happened, however imperfect they may have been. Others reacted to that by wondering aloud whether you had an alternative agenda for blaming them and not the police officer.

There have been some cases in the past of people misusing Gransnet for bad purposes. Please do not be held back from posting by the reactions of those who used "attack is the best method of defence" to deter what appeared to them a possible repeat of that.

I'm also asking you to stay ameliaanne not all of us are overbearing when someone has a different opinion. Have some and welcome!!

AmeliaAnn, it was your totally unjustified slur on Mr. Tomlinson's family to which many of us objected. Otherwise, most of us would simply have concluded that you were a strong supporter of the police, possibly an officer yourself or related to one, and that we thought that in this case you were wrong.
I hope everyone who made unpleasant comments about the family will now withdraw them, or perhaps give us the grounds upon which they made them.

Thank you pammygran.

I am really sad amel..I am new to Gransnet & I am enjoying it very much...PLEASE dont be put off contributing, from what I can see there are quite a few who agree with you, there will always be people who get unpleasant when you give an opinion they dont agree with...I am pationate about free speech..sounds corny but many, many people died for free speech...DONT GO!

I feel sorry forthe jury who must have felt they had been duped when they learnt of his previous record.

I am astonished at some of the posts against me on here because I expressed an opinion which didn't seem to fit with the majority. As nannym said, I shall not be rushing to post on here again in a hurry. Incidentally I am not a newcomer, nor do I know the other poster who seemed to have an alternative opinion too.

There are always two sides to every story....interesting about the miners strike...I had a cousin who was in the Lancs police sent to the picket lines in Yorkshire. I remember him telling us that some of the women scuffling on the picket lines had used sanitary towels attached to their coats!! Anyone who has had to deal with the public will tell you they can be foul!

Grannybug Well done! May I take this opportunity to welcome all newcomers. I hope that they will be as happy as I am to be a member of the elite GN club.

Wow! What a lovely warm welcome for the new posters!! Quite sure theywill be rushing to post again after that experience.

Greatnan...arm around your shoulder.

Yes, I agree with what has been said about the family. I know of a case where Alanon told the family to force the alcoholic out of the house, for their own protection but also to make them face up to what they were doing to themselves.