Tia

I know you didn't. Anagram. I'm being facetious as usual.

nanaej beautifully put - I was struggling but you have succinctly written what I wanted to convey.

Hang on a minute. What has drug use higher up the social scale got to do with any of this? Eva Rausing and Amy Winehouse didn't murder a child as they sadly shuffled their way of this mortal coil?

We all make prejudiced assumptions. All landed gentry are chinless wonders/Eton toffs, middle classes are prigs /small minded, all plumbers are going to rip you off etc etc. It is when a person is in difficulty that these prejudices can do real harm. Just look at the media coverage about the Rausing case vs this case.

Oh, sorry - didn't mean to offend.

No comment!

That you're much like the rest of us, I would hazard, Annobel

I must confess that the picture of the grandma being escorted away from her house just about confirmed every class prejudice I could possibly be guilty of. My main impression was that a Rottweiler would complete the picture. What does that say about me?

Yes petallus I agree about the drug use and also if the Sun had reported he was a convicted arms dealer or international bank fraudster or even if the drug was not crack but something like just straight cocaine, a good middle class drug of choice, (all of which wreak mayhem and misery) then the image of him would be different again. I am not defending him - he may or may not be guilty as indeed may the gran.

Do we really think there's going to be a problem, though, petallus? Somehow I can't see him denying it.

You're right there, Petallus. Plenty of professionals are poly drug users, and many doctors, anaesthetists, dentists etc (not our jeni she's high on life!)

I saw a pic of the grandmother's boyfriend and agree he has that certain look about him. He may be a crack dealer but that doesn't mean that we should automatically assume he killed Tia.

Problem is, with him being a 'low life' (I don't like that term) he is not going to get the same benefit of the doubt as someone higher up the social scale.

Incidentally, there is a lot of hard drug use in the upper classes (as we know from recent events reported in the media).

merlotgran I would never defend a 'low life' as you call him. Watching his interview it was obvious what he was - the Sun online says he is convicted crack dealer. Don't know if I am kidding myself but there is a 'druggy look' which I see and avoid like the plague when out and about and he has it. I am concerned about the way other family and the wider community are treated by the media.

How hard it is to find nightwear without silly pictures or captions on them. I really don't want a nightie wit 'forever friends' on it. Sainsbury's supplied the needful last week.

I have to agree there, Lilygran - mixed messages all round!

It's natural for little girls to want to dress up in grown-up clothes; what I don't understand is why their adults encourage it (apart from the dressing-up box). What I find al ost equally depressing is the infantilisation of grown-up women. I shall be so pleased when little frills and flounces and little smocks and girly slogans on spangly Tshirts go out of fashion. All part of the same confused phenomenon, I think.

A propos dysfunctional families. My DS1 pointed out that our own dear Queen had one that was probably even worse than our own!

RIP poor Tia.

When something like this happens how many think that for all the advances and advantages to most working families in the past century, we have become, if anything, more cruel? Or careless?

I remember going to a school concert in the village and finding the proceedings somewhat distasteful - girls of about 9 and 10 dressed in tight boob tubes gyrating in a provocative way to pop music. Quite a few of the parents were unhappy about it.
We seem to have an instinctive distaste for the early sexualisation of children.

Agreed Anagram

Well, yes - human nature isn't it? Probably the same the world over.

I didn't say it was just a western phenomenon Anagram. I was talking about how vocal we are in castigating others.

I really don't think that's a fair comparison, when. There are probably grandmothers in societies where female genital mutilation is practised who also harm their grandchildren in other ways - it isn't just a western phenomenon.

Children have always been sexualised by adults but I would hope that now we are more enlightened, they would receive more protection. If I hear one more adult compliment their young child by calling them sexy, I'll scream.

Women harming children is common, just hidden more in behaviour like rough personal care or neglect by taking risks and leaving them to fend for themselves. Unfortunately grandmothers do hurt their grandchildren, and our indignation about things like female genital mutilation must look hypocritical to those grandmothers who defend this practice and probably think we should get our own house in order first.

I have a couple of old framed Pears adverts and I think both of them could be termed as provocative, really. I don't like to think of them as so, because I quite like them. One is of the back view of a little girl getting into a bath after 'having forgotten her Pears', and the other is of a little girl showing her knickers a bit, though at this time (30's I think), the knickers were quite far down her legs. However, innocence and sexualisation can be confused depending on the circumstances.

Petallus I don't think it was that common in the sixties. I remember my fronds and I having great battles with our parents over wearing nylons (13) and lipstick(14).
I had to discover eyeliner for myself (16) !!