Horrible people.

SalmAn !!!

Movedalot Some PR chap whose name is Something Klein, I think, has said that Sam Bacile is a nom de plume. He also says that Sam Bacile is definitely not an Israeli and Israel had nothing to do with the film. He admits he is also very anti-Islam. Apparently, he met "Sam Bacile" for an hour.

JO4 Fatwa.

that's it!

JO4, how can you know that the US ambassador to Libya "only wanted the best for their country"? We can't know what's in another person's mind.

This particular man may or may not have been averagely honest, kind and intelligent, but as a US Ambasador, his loyalty must be to America and nowhere else; his job was to further America's interests, which at any given time may or may not co-incide with those of any other nation.

Someone has pointed out that this year in the Muslim calendar is 1433. Let's think about what was happening in the Christian 15th century: for example, 1431 Joan of Arc burned at the stake as a heretic, (only one of many of course), and actually, for not dressing correctly as a woman!.

The Christian world was rife with fanaticism, violence and corruption. Maybe it's just the way that monotheistic religions naturally develop, and hopefully they eventually emerge as fairly humane and rational after a few more centuries!

I understand that someone, allegedly the filmmaker, has been arrested and it is claimed that he is a Coptic Christian. First he was supposed to be an Israeli Jew, now a Coptic Christian – I can't help feeling and worrying that there is more to all this than simple bigotry.

nainainain From what I've read he seems to have been a decent bloke. And no-one deserves what he got.

Yes. Well. I still think they should have murdered the coptic christian. Or whatever he is.

No! There's no rhyme or reason to that view. Just what I feel.

JO4 how refreshing to hear someone just say what they feel instead of something PC or well thought out and reasoned. Why not occassionally just feel something as long as we don't act on it. It is a sign that you are human.

There seems to be doubt about whether an entire film exists or if there is only the trailer on the internet. Actors in the film trailer apparently had no idea what the film was about. There is something very odd.

JO4 I didn't mean that he deserved to be killed! I think I meant that we shouldn't jump to conclusions about people - either positive or negative. But you seem to be better informed than me about this chap; in fact I know nothing! (Must read the papers more)

But there must be more to this story than just a video and some fanatics: there's a long history of bad stuff between the West and the Muslim world. To be fair, they haven't invaded us for a very long time, but we've been doing an awful lot of invading and bombing lately, and they may be a bit cross about it.

Thank you Movedalot.

We must not allow ourselves to become naive concerning the intentions of Muslim terrorism; the avowed intention is `world conversion` to the Muslim religion. If you are happy about your country becoming a Muslim State then either do nothing or make placatory noises and your wish will be granted. If you are unhappy about that be firm, unambiguous and uncompromising in your stance.

How do you mean 'be firm, unambiguous and uncompromising'?

Nanadogsbody, would you be happy to live under the law of islam?

speck I wonder why you didn't answer my question? No, that's not true. I know exactly why. Count me out. I'm not going down this route.

You did not answer my question but I will now answer yours. I was thinking of the opinion and diplomacy dept.

speck123 do you know something everyone else doesn't?

What are you talking about speck? Make yourself clear, if you dare.

'opinion and diplomacy dept' ....... What?

What do you suggest we do, Speck?

Now Iran has renewed the fatwa on Salman Rushdie with a higher price on his head on the basis that if someone had killed him when the first fatwa was issued, then neither the Danish cartoons nor this Innocence film would have happened because the perpetrators wouldn't have dared produce them and Denmark and the US wouldn't have allowed them to.

Al Qaida used to operate in Arab countries, notably Egypt, by stirring up unrest with false evidence of western interference, anti-Islam, etc., sometimes suggesting government connivance. Protesters were arrested and tortured, thus causing a spiral of increasing extremism. This whole episode has a similar feel.

Seems as if a tiny group of extreme right wing Christians have produced this film with the aim of causing offence and trouble. Sure enough a tiny group of extreme Muslim fundamentalists have seized upon it as a tool to wind up mobs in various countries. Trouble is their business. Not sure that the mob is responsible for the embassy attack though- could me more "professional".
But again, these mobs are a tiny minority. The vast majority of Muslims as peaceful and responsible people. It is easy to stir up young men into a mob. We cannot take the high moral ground in that respect - look at N Ireland and last year's looting.
And absolutely - the Christian Crusades were appalling - with the popes of the time stirring up young men and convincing them that this was their religious duty.

nana, what do you mean by `if you dare`. Please explain what you believe I have in mind that requires a `dare.

anodomini, sorry if the use of the word `dept` is confusing. I used the word in the loose, colloquial sense rather than meaning some official department.

As you obviously realise, but choose to misunderstand, speck, I was referring to your use of 'opinion and diplomacy' which to me - and, I suspect, others - was somewhat obscure.