Clegg thinks pensioners should give up benefits

There are no loos on buses so a bus pass is no use to me. I have a railcard though and use that a fair bit but it isn't FREE. To be honest I don't believe things should be totally free. A token payment makes something worthwhile and not 'expected' or 'throwaway'. And yes, I feel that about public toilets too. One tends to respect something that you have to pay for. Vandals usually don't destroy what they've spent money on themselves! I'm embarrassed to receive a winter fuel payment - it's degrading. Like an earlier GN, our pensions should be hiked up to include all these 'benefits'.

And Chester gets the benefit of your spending, while Shrewsbury will be complaing of failing retail shops and cafes.

I can understand them being reluctant to have rush-hour buses full of pensioners out on a spree, but when they are going to town in empty buses to spend money, why not? It is not joined-up planning.

How many pensioners want to travel jammed in with sweaty commuters clutching lap-top bags anyway?

Where I live, we are an equal distance from Chester and Shrewsbury, for serious (winter coat or boots-type) shopping.

We used to use our OAP bus passes on the Park and Ride at either, but now Shrewsbury P&R wont accept them. So of course, we always go to Chester. We travel out of rush hour, and usually have a coffee and snack - it makes a nice day out, quite important for hubby, who does get out much (I am more mobile).

The P&R provides the same regular service all day, whether the bus is filled with pensioners, or empty. They do issue a ticket. I'm not sure what Cardinal Sin we are committing, but can see the time when we will be stuck at home, or adding to the congestion in inner city parking areas.

Ha! If she got the same bus drivers as we have around here, they'd probably take one look at her and let her on without paying. When I left my pass in another handbag, the driver looked at me and believed I was a senior citizen - can't think why.

My sister has a very vain friend who is 76 but refuses to apply for a bus pass because it would make her look old.

I'm not sure how the system works but do suspect that a bit of 'creative accounting' occurs.
I sometimes get the bus from town to my nearest stop (cost about £1) I am often given a ticket that is for the entire journey (cost about £6).
I'm sure I've mentioned this before!
I wonder whether the bus company 'claims back' the cost of tickets, in which case they would be claiming too much for my journey, or whether as Lilygran suggests they charge a standardised amount for each bus pass issued.

Grad I assumed that it was the same everywhere since it's a national system now. Silly me We have to show our bus pass or swipe it on buses where the swiping technology exists and get a ticket if it doesn't. I imagine they must charge a standardised fee for every bus pass issued where the system is different. Even so, why bother to get one if you aren't going to use it? I don't imagine people who never go on public transport would.

Perhaps MPs should give up some of their own perks - Osborne, Gove and Vaizey had free £175 tickets to a Wagner opera which meant they had to leave work at 4 pm. as it was over five hours long (rather them than me!). Prescott was very keen to take 'working' trips to tropical places where he could pursue his hobby of scuba diving. And as for Cherie Blair.........the queen of freebies.

Lilygran, you suggested above that bus passes only cost money if they are used. Do you know that for a fact? On our buses, I just wave my pass at the driver as I board the bus. No ticket is issued so they don't appear to keep any records of the number of journeys made using a pass.

I wrote to my local council to inquire about this last year but was told it was nothing to do with them. Bus passes are controlled and issued by the local transport authority.

Does anyone know how bus passes are paid for? I suspect they each cost a fixed sum of money, whether they are used or not

I can't get on and off public transport (apart from Cunard ships) so don't have bus pass!

When they are elderly and infirm they'll have private health care, goldengirl - real life won't touch them even in their dotage!

This is another of this coaltion's brainless ideas. I wonder what tomorrow's will be? I had high hopes of this coalition but they're just like all the rest of 'em. I learned today that an elderly lady with a broken collarbone was sent home from hospital at 4 am and had to pay £45 for a taxi for the privilege! That's the sort of indignity a government should be focusing on. Instead they shower further indignities upon them - us!!!! I wish I could hear and see their reactions when they become elderly and infirm. We're told we can show our dismay at the ballot box, but the other lot aren't any better either!

And then we could make a lot of fuss and force them to change their minds. Done a lot of that recently!

Oh, never lily!

But then they might completely ignore what they said in the manifesto.

Perhaps part of the problem is that MPs seem to be so Londoncentric? If you live in London you get a Freedom Pass which allows you to travel free on the underground as well as the buses. I heard an MP a couple of months ago refer to the Freedom Pass as something we all get! Many pensioners live in areas which don't have very good public transport and therefore don't use their bus passes as much as those in urban areas and therefore their local authorities don't have to pay out so much.

I only saw NC on TV briefly but it seemed to me he was only talking about really rich pensioners so many/most of us would not be affected.

If we all protest long and loud near the election they won't dare put it in their manifesto as we are the ones who vote!

As most of you have said, it is highly unlikely that any OAP, who is well off, would apply for a bus pass or even want to be seen traveling by bus. So that sorts the bus pass problem out.
As to the fuel allowance and TV license -information is so readily available these days that means testing should not be required. A study of the records at HMRC to find those paying over a given amount of tax will sort out those that don't need help. I don't want to hear all the excuses about the cost of means testing - there are simpler and cheaper options - it must be news to some that we're living in the digital age now!!!

There is no tax VAT etc attached to grants which the winter fuel allowance is.

Please disregard my previous post - I was talking rubbish!

As the only benefit I get is the WTA, and I still pay tax at source on my Teacher's and Civil Service pensions, I would welcome a rise to compensate for losing benefits!

Surely if the winter fuel allowance is paid directly into your bank account it will be classed as income, and taxed accordingly?

None of the extras (winter fuel allowance, bus pass, etc.) is taxable.

The 'winter fuel payment' like the £10 'Christmas present' pensioners get is not ring fenced, it can be spent on anything since it comes in the form of a payment into the bank account. I hardly ever use my bus pass but I do get free prescriptions as I imagine a lot of us do. But I agree with Petallus, a regular increase would be far better than lump sum largesse. And the winter fuel payment is for the household, not for the individual.

I agree with the other comments. I am retired and pay taxes! If I did not have my bus pass I would use my car more, thus contributing to environmental pollution. Loneliness and isolation are likely to increase if people cannot get out and about. Means testing would be socially divisive as many people do not want it to be obvious that they are getting so called hand-outs when others don't. I remember my mother refusing for a long time to claim pension credit which she was entitled to receive. She did not everyone knowing her financial status.

Interesting post FlicketyB. I agree with what you say.