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Jimmy Savile

(765 Posts)
merlotgran Mon 01-Oct-12 15:15:59

Do you believe the allegations that he groomed underage girls for sex and if so, do you hold accountable those in the media/BBC et al who heard rumours, had suspicions, saw evidence etc., but said nothing (probably to protect their careers)?

Personally, I always thought he was weird - even going back as far as schooldays when he was an up and coming DJ. I wouldn't have been at all surprised if all this had come out years ago and maybe it should.

NfkDumpling Fri 05-Oct-12 09:20:01

I too agree with FlickettB. Things were different then. That doesn't mean to say it was right or acceptable, but stuff was swept under the carpet, it didn't 'do' to make a fuss and the media and police were a lot, lot less supportive. Rape victims, for example, would be told they must have lead the perpetrator on. Children were just not listened too. Wouldn't happen now thank goodness - at least, not so often.

Greatnan Fri 05-Oct-12 09:20:41

But it was a scandal. Great article, Bags - I will watch for her articles in future. I had missed the comment that the Pope had not been able to spot a paedophile at close quarters. Well, well, who would have thought it?

petallus Fri 05-Oct-12 09:30:50

Greatnan I am trying to say I don't like certain approaches to scandals. The sort of approach the News of the World used to have.

One thing I didn't like in the Expose prog was when one poor woman was describing how JS put his hands down her knickers and the interviewer, with a very serious look on his face and gazing into her eyes, asked if whilst the hands were down the knickers she had been touched intimately by which presumably he meant did JS touch her genitals. That made me cringe. Hands down the knickers would have been enough. We didn't have to know the exact position of the hands. I'm only thankful he didn't ask if it was inside or outside.

I think some programs go into unnecessary salacious detail in order to attract large viewing audiences.

I don't think I can explain myself any clearer than that.

petallus Fri 05-Oct-12 09:34:02

Exposure I should say

FlicketyB Fri 05-Oct-12 09:35:37

That sentence did not apply to the behaviour of Jimmy Saville. I made that absolutely clear in my comment. Rape and serious sexual assault are and always have been unacceptable and could be prosecuted.

What I said applied to how those at that time re-acted to what was said about him. I think it highly unlikely that anyone other than a small coterie of a complicit few knew the full extent of what he was doing. Until the late 1980s there was a common feeling that 'dirty old men' were a hazard women faced and you just had to learn to deal with it. The assumption was that dirty old men groped and sniggered, got to close and talked improperly but it went little further. Do you remember the acronym NSIT (not safe in taxis)? In my first job, almost on the first day, I was warned by other women in the department about finding myself alone with one member of staff. I was advised if that happened to get up and walk around and get out. He was a predatory groper, with hindsight, in his case, I think that if he thought he could have got away with it, his groping probably would have moved to assault, but even then that would have crossed a line that would have caused a furore. None of us liked his behaviour or encouraged it but if we had complained it would have been shrugged off as a hazard of life.

To people now the kind of low level (and higher) sexual harrassment that women just coped with thirty or forty years ago is shocking. Nowadays such men could end up in court. All I am saying is that at the time the first rumours went around about Jimmy Saville, that people sniggered, laughed and just passed it off as him being a dirty old man was how the culture of the time worked.

And it is still happening. DD works in the media and several years ago when a certain show business personality came on the tv at home, she commented on rumours about this man's sexual behaviour, not paedophilia, a year or so later it was in the papers, not quite prosecuteable, but it ended his career.

Bags Fri 05-Oct-12 09:41:59

petallus, I understand what you're saying. I would have thought that hands down someone else's knickers should be called "intimate" touching, full stop! However, I can imagine people wishing to make the crime seem less bad than it was saying that it wasn't as bad "as if he had....", so perhaps there is a place for all the revolting details to be investigated and made public. It's a sad fact that some people need to be shocked for it to get through to their brains how bad a thing has been.

Brave women. I salute them. Sadly sad

jeni Fri 05-Oct-12 09:43:59

Folks. Please do not confuse me with ATOS I work for the depart of justice ie the courts service. Technically I am neither employed or an employee of them I am a ' judicial office holder' apparently!confused
Just in case any of you were thinking I was ATOS.

Greatnan Fri 05-Oct-12 10:03:09

jeni - it would never cross my mind that you worked for that awful organisation - although, of course, they are only doing what the government has told them to do - stop benefits wherever possible.
Petallus, yes, I also hate the hypocritical way in which some newspapers fume about sexual misdemeanours then show picture after picture of 'celebs' showing their knickers or breasts.
I think we are all agreed that the culture of sniggers and innuendoes was wrong and hurtful and that the truth needs to be told to help the victims feel that they are believed, at last.

jeni Fri 05-Oct-12 10:07:03

Thanks greatnan I was getting worried. My paranoia showing after those complaints I think.
Sorry to digress from the toplic folks.
I am watching with interest!

jeni Fri 05-Oct-12 10:07:33

Toplic? TOPIC!

annodomini Fri 05-Oct-12 10:11:33

I am sure that there is more to come out about other sleazy celebs - it won't end with Jimmy Savile.

glassortwo Fri 05-Oct-12 10:15:21

I have avoid this thread for days now sad can I say that these women would have been to hell and back many many times before they had the courage to stand up and make these allegations, its matter less to them I think that he cant defend his actions, but its a huge step in their own healing, wish I could have been as brave.

merlotgran Fri 05-Oct-12 10:46:55

I watched Question Time last night and thought Janet Street Porter looked uncomfortable (never thought I'd see that) as she admitted she had heard rumours about JS and dodged awkward questions. Career is all!!

Grannylin Fri 05-Oct-12 11:08:54

Ditto glass Does death of the perpetrator, finally bring some kind of closure.I hope so.It may get rid of that destructive feeling of wanting to annihilate him sad

merlotgran Fri 05-Oct-12 11:51:17

Can he be posthumously stripped of his knighthood?

jeni Fri 05-Oct-12 12:37:23

Yes!

crimson Fri 05-Oct-12 12:41:22

Someone mentioned on another forum that their father was a policeman in the met years ago and they all knew what was going on.

POGS Fri 05-Oct-12 12:46:09

Me too glass. hmm

glassortwo Fri 05-Oct-12 13:39:19

grannylin pogs flowers

specki4eyes Fri 05-Oct-12 15:15:42

Probably been said many times in this thread, but can I ask, if so many people knew about him and his deviant behaviour, how in heavens name did he get a knighthood?

(oh yes, just seen your post merlot) Answers anyone?

glitabo Fri 05-Oct-12 15:18:35

Money talks

Marelli Fri 05-Oct-12 15:38:27

I wonder, if in some distorted way, he thought he was redeeming himself by doing 'good works'? Though, while he was doing the good works, he was still carrying out foul deeds. angrysad

Ana Fri 05-Oct-12 15:39:42

From the sound of it, he never at any time thought he was doing anything wrong! hmm

Greatnan Fri 05-Oct-12 15:43:48

He was a catholic - I wonder if anything similar happened to him in his childhood?

jeni Fri 05-Oct-12 15:59:28

A lot of a users have themselves been abused.