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Situation in Israel - we can help.

(58 Posts)
Fondasharing Fri 16-Nov-12 18:12:33

As bombs rain down on Gaza, Palestinians and Israelis are on the brink of another cycle of violence and vengeance. But, right now, the Palestinian Authority is preparing a bid to the UN that could be the best chance for peace. Let's help them win it.

While people in southern Israel live in fear of rocket fire, the Gazan people live under siege, imprisoned in a tiny stretch of land. And in the West Bank people are driven from their lands by illegal settlements; their sick get stuck for hours in Israeli checkpoints on the way to hospital; and families are divided by a huge wall that slices through their fields. But if the Palestinians win their UN bid for a state now, it could begin to end the 40 years of occupation, and pave the way for two states, Palestine and Israel, living side by side in peace and security.

The US and Israel are furiously trying to crush the UN vote, and the attack on Gaza may be an attempt to shift attention from the bid and present the Palestinians as untrustworthy partners. But the UK is still on the fence, and EU Foreign Ministers meet in just four days. If we all speak out now, we can persuade the UK government to vote 'yes' for peace and freedom. Click to drown out the blockers with our voices of hope via a massive petition delivered through a 5 storey high flag right outside the ministers' meeting (picture at right):

http://www.avaaz.org/en/palestine_worlds_next_nation_uk/?bCzICdb&v=19243

This is a legitimate, non-violent proposal that would provide Palestinians with a new legal status. And it is the best opportunity to turn the tide on endless US-led talks that do little more than provide cover for the steady illegal colonisation of Palestinian lands by Israeli ‘settlements’. The Palestinian resolution calls for the resumption and acceleration of negotiations. A 'yes' vote would rescue the path to a more balanced and fair peace process between two legitimate states.

While the Israeli and US governments are calling the bid ‘unilateral’ and dangerous, in fact the UN, World Bank and IMF say that the Palestinians are ready to run their own state, if only the occupation would end. And the world’s nations overwhelmingly support this diplomatic move away from violence. Ironically, the US/Israel efforts to overturn this bid and their threats to cut off money to the Palestinians are self-defeating as they boost the power of those who want to do away with Israel as a Jewish state.

Last year the US blocked a Palestinian bid at the UN Security Council. But in the upcoming vote at the UN General Assembly, all nations vote, and this resolution could begin to end the US/Israeli hegemony over this conflict. It can't fully admit Palestine to the UN, but it can declare Palestine a state, with access to a range of international organisations, and give greater international legitimacy to non-violent Palestinian efforts to stop the Israeli military occupation.

Joan Wed 05-Dec-12 07:32:14

I am deeply saddened by what the Israelis are doing, but we must not lose sight of the fact that Hamas vows the destruction of Israel. Their hatred is deep and unrelenting.

With Netenyahu on the one side, and Hamas on the other, there was never going to be anything approaching an agreement on anything. While Hamas is gaining strength, Israel is going more right wing.

I despair.

annodomini Tue 04-Dec-12 19:20:56

I am - and I'm sure I'm not the only one - shocked by Israel's blatant defiance and provocation in announcing more settlements in East Jerusalem and the West Bank, immediately following the upgrading of Palestine's status at the UN. I have a message from the Palestine Solidarity Campaign and have, as they suggest, sent an email to the Foreign Office to urge them to recall our ambassador from Israel. Hague has already had their ambassador in for a discussion and it hasn't done any good. But recalling our ambassador would at least make a point. If only this provocation would provoke the US to make a point!

jO5 Thu 22-Nov-12 10:37:10

And the blockade hasn't been lifted.

jO5 Thu 22-Nov-12 10:36:50

sad picture here of a little boy celebrating what the Palestinians seem to regard as a victory

Why do they have to party, as though they have won? That can't do anything to promote a lasting peace.

merlotgran Tue 20-Nov-12 19:40:16

I suppose it depends which politician is doing the explaining, petallus. They don't regard the settlements as being illegal even though the international community does. I'm sure they have plenty of legal brains to construct their argument.

I'm not siding with the Israelis. I hate what's happening in Gaza just as much as anyone.

petallus Tue 20-Nov-12 17:55:07

This is a genuine question Merlotgran: how would the Israelis explain the illegal settlements on the West Bank?

jO5 Tue 20-Nov-12 14:33:43

I know merlotgran. It is a hugely difficult situation.

merlotgran Tue 20-Nov-12 14:18:19

If you were living in a country surrounded by enemies who wanted you wiped off the face of the earth, would you not expect your government to protect you? Many Israelis long for peace but ending the bloodshed will be a long and complicated process.

jO5 Tue 20-Nov-12 14:06:04

petallus I quite agree about the killing of the Hamas leader. It has set all this off again. It was stupid. angry

petallus Tue 20-Nov-12 13:11:39

I now have a much firmer grasp of the intricacies of this situation and still feel basically the same as when I didn't.

It can't help matters in Gaza that Israel has illegal settlements on the West Bank. The blockade of Gaza cannot be helping matters either.

Why did Israel go to the trouble of exterminating the Hamas leader who was a moderating influence on Hamas?

Is there anything to be gained by an escalation of hostilities?

An excuse to invade Gaza perhaps!

jO5 Tue 20-Nov-12 10:17:00

I guess I was thinking of technical know-how rather than 'aid'.

Lilygran Tue 20-Nov-12 10:13:25

Or maybe it is used differently israelipalestinian.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=000592

jO5 Tue 20-Nov-12 10:05:19

Israel is lucky to be more technically advanced, most likely with the help of the US. Seems unfair that the Palestinians don't have the same help given to them.

Greatnan Tue 20-Nov-12 09:59:50

I have landed at Taba airport a couple of times, where you can see Israel, Jordon, Egypt and the mountains of Saudi Arabia. The security is pretty tight outside the airport. There is a big sign saying 'Welcome to Israel'. The array of heavily armed guards did not seem very welcoming!
Egypt's tourist industry has suffered greatly from the conflict - the Israelis used to form a large part of the visitors to the Red Sea resorts, until they were warned by their government that it was too dangerous. Now, the coast is lined with half-built or empty hotels. It is very sad - there is not much alternative employment.

jO5 Tue 20-Nov-12 09:54:05

The whole territory thing is so complicated! Who the flip can get their head round this lot!

jO5 Tue 20-Nov-12 09:43:25

Let's hope Hillary can talk some sense into the Israelis.

They must know by now what the rest of the world really thinks.

Lilygran Mon 19-Nov-12 10:12:08

Gaza has a border with Egypt. Before the regime change in Egypt, that border was policed like the one with Israel. Now it appears it isn't. Joan makes a very good and often overlooked point, that the thousands of rockets fired into Israel from Gaza are not as lethal as they might be because the Israelis try to intercept as many as they can and the population within range spends a lot of time in air raid shelters.

absentgrana Mon 19-Nov-12 09:52:30

petallus It is such a complicated situation and arouses such strong emotions that it is often difficult to read between the lines in media reports. Spokesmen and even journalists are hugely selective in what they say about their activities and intentions. I always find it wryly amusing when Israeli spokesmen – the most recent one I heard being the Ambassador to Britain – sound off self-righteously about terrorist organisations in general and Hamas in particular. It wasn't Arabs who blew up the King David Hotel in Tel-Aviv and killed nearly 100 people in 1946 in revenge for the confiscation of documents about Jewish terrorist groups. They conveniently forget the foundations of an independent Israeli state.

It is also such a problem because the solution must take account of what is now rather than what was at some time in the past or what might have been. That's obvious but so often overlooked.

I have to say that I don't think there will be a solution to this terrible mess or an end to the deaths and injury in my lifetime.

petallus Mon 19-Nov-12 09:38:23

Oh okay. I should have known that. Will go and find out exactly what is going on so I can comment from a more informed position in future smile

absentgrana Mon 19-Nov-12 09:23:04

petallus The West Bank is occupied and it is there that Israel has been building settlements and cutting off chunks of Palestinian territory with its so-called security fence.

Joan Mon 19-Nov-12 09:19:40

Israel concentrates on systems that defend its civilians from rocket fire. Attack and defense go hand in hand there. That is why they have fewer casualties.

Hamas concentrates on attacks only, and they have always put their militants among civilians: in the last interfada we saw televised direct evidence of this. Then they use the resulting civilian deaths as propaganda.

Hamas is a despicable organisation, and its main victims are the Palestinian people. They elected them, but I doubt if they knew what they were in for.

petallus Mon 19-Nov-12 09:07:33

Thanks absentgrana.

I was sure I read something the other day about illegal occupation still going on.

However, pleased it isn't.

absentgrana Mon 19-Nov-12 09:03:01

petallus Israel doesn't occupy Gaza any longer – it left in 2005. However, it does control Gaza – water, food, medical supplies, building materials and access in and out of Palestinian territory.

petallus Mon 19-Nov-12 08:56:50

Whenever figues for casualties are announced, Palestinian ones far outweigh Israeli ones.

I don't know why we want to pretend it is an equal fight.

I am wondering if our media are biased.

petallus Mon 19-Nov-12 08:54:57

Would it be 'impossible' for the Israelis to end illegal occupation?