Nick Clegg is at it again

OK, thanks for the clarification, Pogs.

Anno

A very fair comment but I meant widespread use by 'wealthy pensioners', sorry if I confused.

I don't know where you live, Pogs, but I assure you that the use of bus passes is very widespread hereabouts. And in Manchester it most certainly is. Of course, the more rural bus services are reduced, the less take-up there will be except in urban areas.

Does make me very angry that my cousin, who lives in South Africa, still gets the winter fuel allowance, especially as with the exchange rate it is a far greater amount for him. He hasn't lived in this country for years and I think it's a damn cheek......

I think it is quite fair to stop fuel allowances and t.v. licences for wealthy pensioners. I have said it before and stick to my guns. As for bus passes I doubt very much there is widespread usage of them.

It's all very well to give your money to charity but for goodness sake think of the wages they pay the top brass and the waste of where it 'might' go.

Better to keep it in the welfare pot and be distributed to those who need it most.

I admit my point of view would depend entirely on what they consider 'wealthy' to be however. I consider a wealthy pensioner, very good pension, own home and mortgage free, able to take holidays very fortunate. It's the younger generation having it tough now, give something back. I think I would have a reasonably high income in mind however but I cannot in all honesty say what I think that should be.

I know I will get the valid points said again how 'Well I worked hard for my money' or ' Why should I not receive what other pensioners get', etc. but if we want state benefits to go to the poorest then is it really acceptable to give handouts to those who don't need them.

I take it he has taken a straw poll of people in his Hallam constituency, which is one of the richest in the country, before he came up with this good idea? I shouldn't think so for a minute!

*Oldgreymare' if you are a resident of London (and all it's Boroughs) yes. It's a deal. I use Oyster..which also gives me a discount but nothing to do with age.

Our bus service in NE Cheshire is again under scrutiny and is up for tender. I use it to go to and from the railway station and for the odd shopping trip or hospital visit. Those who also use the service are almost all using bus passes. I pay an annual fee for my railcard which gives me a 30% discount on fares. Before free bus passes were introduced, we had passes that gave us a 60% reduction on off-peak bus fares (if my memory serves me correctly). If it would save bus services in rural or semi-rural areas, I would be in favour of charging a modest fee for bus passes and keeping the fares free.

Sel do you have to live in London to get those perks? I recently proffered my Senior Rail Card when attempting to buy a ticket for the tube and was told I could use it if I bought an Oyster card, but not for a single journey.
Golly if I thought that were possible I would be up for Gallery/Museum visits (those with free entry, of course) on a far more regular basis than once a year!!!!!
P.S. Nick Clegg needs to do/say something contentious to justify that frightened rabbit look he has!

Agreed.

phoenix like minded people but I know lots who just laugh and pocket it. Actually I don't know about the Aussie bound...why not? The issue is, shouldn't it be targeted to those in real need? I think Nick Clegg is actually a nice person, deluded at times (I'd say from a business perspective) but, actually he has a completely valid point. There aren't many pensioners in need where I am, why not redirect to the people who do?

Gracesmum indeed No, but the level should be open to debate. Not sure what the bar would be but to my mind, there should be a bar.

My mother has always given her winter fuel payment to charity!

A couple that I know put their winter fuel payment towards their fares to Australia. They flew out about 3 weeks ago, and don't return until the end of January.

Sel, I take your point and can see the logic. I would seek reassurance that the level they set is indeed the "wealthy" retired not the squeezed middle again. I like your comment about being convenient for the theatre - surely mahvellous for getting to and from one's club, dining out in the West End or the opera too?

Gracesmum, our posts crossed

No 'Movedalot' Two different issues. I have a pension, purely self funded from my business, I have another I bought because it gave me tax advantages, but I have a full pension from the Government because I always worked. Into that pops a 'winter fuel allowance' - I don't need it. And yes, I could take the time to send that back to the Government but, to be honest, I'd rather give the money to people begging on the streets and since I was in receipt of it, I have done. I know many people in the same position that make a bit of a joke about it. I have wealthy friends who also joke about public transport..they live in London, where,if you're over 60, all public transport is free. It's so convenient for the theatre.

I want the people who need the money to benefit

While I don't entirely disagree, Sel, your sentence
"Lots of people 60+ have no need whatsoever for a winter fuel allowance or all the other automatic benefits, *triggered by age "
just makes me think of those who are perhaps housebound, who feel the cold more as they are getting older, who may not be able to get out because of mobility problems,no longer being able to drive and needing public transport, being affected by unsteadiness or lack of confidence out after dark all - of which could also be said to be " triggered by age. "

Heck, there are precious few perks in ageing- why can't we hang on to the few we have!

I'm not sure the prospect of losing the winter fuel allowance and a bus pass would put youngsters off saving into a pension scheme, Movedalot. If they can afford to save, they'll probably be able to afford to run a car and pay their bills without help when they've retired, I would have thought.

But Sel if you do that you will remove all incentive for young people to save into a pension. If they know they will be penalised because they have saved they won't bother. Before anyone tells me young people can't save, some can and they should be encouraged to do so in order that benefits will be available for those who can't.

The chancellor will be rolling in it if they take bus passes of millionaires! How many wealthy pensioners actually claim and use a bus pass. The really wealthy have chauffeurs and the moderately wealthy have those automobile things Nick, you know, a wheel at each corner and no horses?

Actually I do think there's a valid point and, administratively, it's very easy to link to a tax return and code. Lots of people 60+ have no need whatsoever for a winter fuel allowance or all the other automatic benefits, triggered by age.

When the Government changed the Child Benefit rules, ie, if you were above a certain income you didn't get it, I thought that was a step in the right direction.

We all differ - why should reaching pension age trigger benefits for all? Surely better if those are targeted to those who really need them.

Nick Clegg and others can keep their mitts off my bus pass and winter fuel allowance when I read that KPMG partners saw their income slip to an average of £500K (yes, that's right) after profits fell in the last year. Given the price of fuel I often use buses where previously I might have driven and the cost of the 6 mile trip into MK to the shops is extortionate. Mind you I probably won't be able to afford to go to the shops much at this rate. The figures regarding pensioners are so trivial in the overall scheme of things, but we are seen as a soft target and our pensions as "money for doing nothing". What have we paid in all these years? And as for those of us who took time out of work to bring up our children, we have the double whammy of being hard up then and getting less pension *now.

Mollie clearly he does! He wouldn't be making this suggestion if it was only about the really rich as the admin would be too much and anyway, can you really imagine millionaires using bus passes?

would gladly forgo the winter fuel allowance and the bus pass (and when I reach 75 the free TV licence) if they would raise the basic state pension for all and do away with the 'only for those in receipt of pension credit' means testing. I do not have a full pension as I only have 39 (yes 39) years worth of stamps, (Home responsibility credits came too late for me) which is supplemented by a small annuity so I already pay tax and council tax and for teeth and glasses on an income of about £12k net pa.
does that nice Mr Clegg consider I am 'rich' - he needs to define his terms before anyone can judge whether it is a good idea.

All the paperwork involved in sorting it all out, and staff to do it, would probably be more than the savings they would make anyway. Stupid people, how come we can see that but they can't?