Thought Provoking Article "I feel like a stranger where I live"

I don't believe for one moment that all muslim shopkeepers are unwelcoming.

" It seems that almost overnight it’s changed from Acton Vale into Acton Veil. "

That for me sums up the silliness of the article. Surprised it has found print room.

I feel the article was an honest description of the writer's sadness and loss. She misses the friendliness and community feeling of the past, and tries her best to accept people, but feels invisible.

I have just read the autobiography of the Somalian/Dutch political scientist Aayan Hirsi Ali, a formerly devout Muslim, now, since 9/11, an atheist. From Ali's point of view, the main problem is fundamentalist Islam. She tried all her youth and much of her adult life to be a good Muslim, but rejected it in the end because when applied to civic life, fundamentalist Islam is destructive, negative, deeply judgemental, corrupt and dangerous.

She analysed the reasons for 9/11 given by Osama bin Laden and others, reasons from the Koran, she checked the references and realised that every single justification they gave for that atrocity were in the Koran, word for word.

She also compared the differences in civic life between deeply Islamic countries such as Somalia and Saudi Arabia, and Western countries such as Holland and America - all places she has lived for years, and realised that the way of the West works so very well, and the way of Islam is war, hatred, deep misogyny, cruelty and murder.

I believed in multiculturalism myself, for years, but no longer. Now I believe in assimilation. Immigrants MUST learn the ways of their new country, the language, the laws and the social mores. They can live as they want in their own homes, use their own language at home, worship their own brand of imaginary sky friend with fellow believers in Mosques, churches, temples and synagogues. But they must put their business signs up in English and well as their own language, and never criticise others for not following their particular beliefs and behaviour.

Ali said Muslims are taught that their way is the only way, much better than Western ways, and that the West is evil and corrupt. She expected this when she fled to Europe to escape an arranged marriage, but what she found was a clean, friendly, well ordered society with little corruption.

Now she is worried that the Dutch (and I guess the UK is the same) decency and friendliness and acceptance of other cultures is allowing the spread of the nastier versions of Islam, and that the fear of being called racist is stopping any counter action. She confirmed that other Somalian refugees told her that she could get whatever she wanted by calling people racist if they denied her. She is deeply ashamed of this.

It's a worry.

Your final paragraph is worrying. I have been aware that the accusation of racism is often abused - way back in the early 70's I can remember kids in Battersea trying it on without a lot of success as most of the staff in that comprehensive were very left wing- but I had not made the connection with the spread of islamic (or other) fundamentalism. Long live decency andtoleration nevertheless.
What worries me - and this is off the point of the article - is that by "demonising" any group, whether Muslims or Hoodies one is alienating the moderates who feel obliged to side with those with more extreme ideas.

PS I am speaking in general - not accusing the writer of the article or present company of demonising any group - before anybody rushes to shoot me down!!

gracesmum This is the problem - we feel dodgy about saying what we think in case the racist card comes into play.

We have to discuss these things openly and freely, because being scared to express genuine and deeply thought-out opinions plays into the hands of those with nasty agendas.

I'm of the political left, and have been a member of an anti-racist group here in Australia, that successfully defeated a racist MP, Pauline Hanson. Hanson's fears were totally unjustified, it was all the 'yellow peril' with her, saying we were being 'swamped by Asians' meaning Chinese and Vietnamese etc.

These immigrants/ refugees have been great for Australia - they integrate in public life - my son is marrying a Chinese/Vietnamese girl and I love her. She does speak Cantonese at home, was brought up with strong discipline, and is well educated. She fits in well with all the family too - she is lovely.

This is how it should be. Not like that poor woman's London experience.

Many years ago my grandma lived in one of those tall edwardian terraced villas in Clapham - she had been there for the whole of her 50 year marriage. When grandpa died she lived on there for some years but eventually moved out - not because she wanted to but because the houses around her had gradually been turned into flats that were populated by immigrants.

She made some dreadfully racist comments; but her experience was that of becoming a stranger in her own community where she had lived nearly her whole life. Whilst her use of racist langauge is to be deprecated, we all understood her discomfort and her need to move on.

Yes, Mishap we have to understand and forgive racist comments from that generation, because racism was endemic in their youth - it was everywhere and no-one gave it much thought.

I think the second world war, and the horrible realisation of the holocaust. stopped casual racism in its tracks - we found out to our utter horror where it could lead.

But racism goes both ways, and I think society in general is beginning to realise this.

And worrying about negative social trends is natural, normal, and not racist at all.

I bet in 1685 tongues wagged about the influx of French immigrants, how they didn't know the language, ate strange, smelly food and lived in conclaves, driving out the native English. Not to mention taking over the silk trade.

In spite of centuries of different waves of immigrants, the British, in general, remain steadfastly insular.

The irony, mishap is that those same houses are now back to single occupancy homes and changing hands at well over £1 million!

And as for the French - well, smelly food and strange language (not to mention hand gestures) - what can one say!

I do wonder about the golden age in west london when all the shop keepers were friends. The thing that makes me feel like a foreigner in this multi ethnic city is the surly miserable blank faces of the white British shop assistants . A few will talk if coaxed " how much longer are you working tonight?". It is quite different if you travel 50 miles north to the west midlands.
I went into an asian grocery store recently and the young man called me "love" . Phew. That made such a change.
And the mixed bunch in the local budgens are quite friendly. The tall young student from barbados is a tough nut though - hates the weather and misses his sunny island home I think.
Byt the way jo nice post(s).

Most of the corner shops where we live are run by people whose heritage is other than UK and they all seem very pleasant. Where my DS and DDiL live, in NW London, the same is true. They live in a really mixed neighbourhood and have good neighbours and friends from all over the place. I have been in shops where I've felt like an intruder but I couldn't say they were run by one ethnic group rather than another.

Corner shops – very often run by immigrants, though rarely by their offspring – wouldn't flourish if the owners were surly and unhelpful. It' s because they are open for long hours almost every day of the year and can be relied upon to get what you ask for in stock and be thoughtful, friendly and helpful that they make a profit. All credit to them and I am grateful to many that have provided a convenient source of bread, milk and so on for me over the years. I fully appreciate why they work so hard so that their children will have better lives.

Our village shop has been taken over by Udi and Dina. I have only seen Dina (the wife) twice ever and the second time she asked after DH, having registered that the first time we met, about a year ago, DH was in hospital. People skills 10/10 - not to mention the newspaper on the mat shortly after 7 every morning even in the snow. Village shops all over the country are struggling and we were without one for over 18 months - now we have courteous and friendly service, eggs sourced from a local farm, likewise organic milk and the best fresh fruit and veg I have seen outside the market.
I have no complaints!

The above posts reflect the kind of shopping experience the writer of the article misses a lot. She's clearly not bothered about their race, but the increasingly indifferent and unfriendly attitudes are saddening and alienating her.

Exactly Joan
Gracesmum with all due respect, an Asian-owned shop in an English village is rather a different business situation from one in a Muslim-dominated area of London.
So many village shops have closed and if they don't provide good customer service they aren't going to survive for long.
I hope your fellow residents support their shop and it thrives - I firmly believe in the power of small businesses to breathe life into a community and to help a local economy.

My post office and general groceries shop is run by Iqbal and his wife. They go out of their way to provide everything you might want in an emergency. They open for long hours, even when the post office side is closed, and were kind enough to offer to put a couple of parcels through the post for me next day when I raced in a few minutes late.

The Spar shop is run by a Pakistani family. The husband is now a school governor and he raises money for local charities. They live above the shop and locals know they will respond if emergencies like milk, bread, nappies or baby food are needed after hours (not wine or cigarettes).

I have a regular Jamaican postman, who trudged through the snow in his shorts wearing a Father Christmas hat to cheer his elderly regulars up.

Then, I have some lovely neighbours and friends from all over the world, who truly represent integrated cultures. It's quite interesting to sit round the dinner table and hear that they, too, remember when........ They don't blame people, but town planning, new roads, supermarkets, schools closing, the next generation moving further afield. Some people adapt to change, others don't. We don't have to dwell on the miserable git in the curtain shop, or the brittle receptionist in the doctor's. They are a small part of our lives.

I am not claiming they are the same, but friendly faces and service are so often missing from shops today. I was responding to what lilyggraan. *JessM8 and absent's comments. I think I have already said my bit about my own and our DDs' experience of living in racially mixed areas of London. The fundamentalist vigilante gangs are a terrifying prospect - but for heaven's sake, why isn't there pressure on the local police force to do something ?

I think the police have to tread a very fine line Gracesmum.
It is very easy for them to be accused of racism and sometimes perhaps to avoid that, they hang back from doing things.
Wasn't that the case with the gangs in Rochdale who abused young white girls?

Political correctness gone mad - however there are other groups who render certain areas no-go areas - "working girls" and drug dealers included. I sometimes wonder if the police prefer to go for the "soft" targets - like people who drop a sachet of salt in a carpark ( recent case - no not in the DM and a £400 fine)?

The talk of integration reminds me of when we moved to Cornwall over 35 years ago amid dire warnings about how unfriendly the people would be and how unwelcome we would be. Fortunately my husband's job was a very specialised one so he wasn't in competition with local workers and we became involved in various local organisations and helped set up a village magazine. Surely if one was moving to a foreign country it would be even more important to do these things.

This country has not pursued an ideal of integration. I think now the tide is turning. Interesting story in the press today that Polish is now the second most commonly spoken language here. But the Poles have blended in haven't they (in most areas - I know there are particular issues in east anglia) . Round here many of them have slotted into successfuly into customer service roles where they are doing a great job. "Overqualified", every one of them I suspect.

I think that were we are all open to immigration and do not have prejudices, but have a problem with a people, any kind of people, coming to the UK not helping the country in any shape or form and actualy doing quite the opposite by going straight to the dole office when they arrive how can that be right in any mans land.

Just my humble opinion.

Mey The idea that people immigrate from all over the world and claim benefits straight away is a pernicious myth.

I think I would take a more moderate view and suggest that we should welcome those who make a net contribution to our country but not those who don't.

Although I don't understand how so many Koreans came to live in the UK, when I worked in New Malden (has the highest Korean population outside Korea) I found them hard working and very pleasant people. I am happy for them to be here but there are communities which don't integrate at all and do cost the country a lot of money.