Thought Provoking Article "I feel like a stranger where I live"

Depressing and I thought more DM than DT. I do not know Acton, but have DDs living in "mixed " parts of London (Walthamstow and Camberwell) and do not think this is their experience.

graces I thought it had a slightly lighter and in a way wistful touch than the DM. I got the feeling that the writer had always enjoyed social interactions with whoever happened to be in the local shops etc, and is now missing that, but perhaps I'm jumping to conclusions.

You may well be right - I would hope the DT wouldn't publish a scare-mongering "UK's gone to the dogs " article without some element of balance.

That is exactly what I mean, graces , you've hit the nail on the head! I felt that this piece was miles away from the sort of shock horror type of article.

Not DM style at all, It made uncomfortable reding for those of us who enjoy many aspect of multiculturalism - but do not actually live the reality, day in, day out. I am gregarious too - and like to chat to all, but it is true that I feel outcast and rejected by women heavily veiled. The veil is not a problem to me - the problem is as described- the refusal to make any eye contact (quite possible even with a veil) and to engage. I am ready to reach out, as I am not racist or anti-muslim - but the refusal to communicate with me is felt with rejection- and after a while you think 'why'? Are they racists? And I hate feeling that way - so I feel what she is saying.

And I understand that she feels very sad and disappointed about herself coming to the negative decision to move. France and Spain are full of people who feel like her btw. Mind you, as so few learn to speak French or Spanish - and do not integrate well - they make the local in some French (Dordogneshire) and Spanish town feel like foreigners themselves!!!

I think this is very sad but true. I'd like a different expression than multi-culturalism, something that implies mixing in rather than lots of separate cultures. It is sad that people feel they have to move out of such areas but very understandable and I think it may be the same in all big cities.

I have also read about the muslim patrols and it really worries me. Surely they should not be allowed to harrass people who see things differently to them. I'm sure the police would not allow white people to harrass another community. I hope they are addressing this as a priority.

This is a very delicate subject and we all have our opinions.

My sister lives in London and I recently accompanied her to The London Hospital in Whitechapel E1 as this is her closest Hospital and she had a clinic appointment.

I have to say that if someone had plonked me there and not told me were I was I could have easily thought that I was in another country and the same goes for walking down the Whitechapel Road.

Is this a good thing, again we all have our opinions. The Uk is very easy going on immigration, trying to immigrate to places like Australia and the USA is much much harder.

I don't think this is true at all. Having lived more or less next door to Acton until three years ago, it seems a totally untrue picture to me. There's a huge ethnic mixture in West London and, as a rule, it works really well. I found the guys at the curtain shop mentioned utterly wonderful, helpful, thoughtful and polite. They make great curtains too.

Is it a case of each to his own Absent ?

The journalist was putting forward her perspective .

Should she be blamed ?

I spent the weekend in London and was shocked how few people working in cafes etc speak English. I have no problem with immigration but people should learn to speak English to work here. I expected to see a lot of foreign tourists but not find it difficult to make myself understood in my own country's capital city.

My grandfather came to live in the England just after the first World War, married my English grandmother and they had four children who never had any problems embracing two cultures. During the 1930s he shopped in Italian food shops whenever he could find them in South London and continued to use garlic in all his cooking which was considered foreign muck in those days, but apart from retaining some of his culinary habits and a strong accent he embraced all things English. Second generations of European immigrants are often completely blended with the parent culture. It's a touchy subject but lately we are seeing some worrying trends emerge on the streets of certain UK cities. The latest being the self styled Muslim patrols who have taken it upon themselves to impose their beliefs on members of the public partaking in activities they find distasteful. Part of me almost thought it was a good thing when I first read they were confiscating drink, when did drinking on the street become acceptable? then I quickly came to my senses, it's not their turf, the streets belong to the general public. Whilst I can understand their distaste for some of our worst excesses, I find it abhorrent they have been harassing women to cover up and threatening gay people. We have also learnt recently some of the attitudes peddled in Islamic schools are completely at odds with our own. Far from integrating with the mainstream culture I think it's quite apparent that there are sizeable sections of Muslims living lives of complete separateness and they are striving to make certain areas their own and frankly they are succeeding. There have been quite a lot of articles about "white flight" out of ghettoised inner city districts and from how the writer describes West Acton in the article in the Telegraph, if I was her and had the means, I would be off too.

absent the point the journalist was making was that in the past, she had found the curtain shop guys pleaasnt and helpful etc. It was the change in attitude she was remarking on.

Nonu Who am I blaming and for what? I was simply posting about my own knowledge of an area, in general, where I lived since I was 23 years old until I was approaching 60. janeainesworth perhaps the shop has changed hands in the last three years or perhaps not.

BAnanas some very well observed points in your post.

I do not believe any one said you were blaming anyone .

It is merely a case of different points of view .

The journalist felt , the way i read it that she did not feel awfully comfortable in Acton any longer . She actually lives there so possibly she has a more in depth knowledge than others .

I certainly read the word "blame"
(Quote)

"Is it a case of each to his own Absent ?

The journalist was putting forward her perspective .

Should she be blamed ?"

granjura, sorry only just read you post properly, again I think you made some very pertinent comments.

I don't think that this is something to which there is an answer, as of course it is very subjective, however I do find the comments re. people taking it upon themselves to tell others (i.e. gay people, or indeed people that they assume to be gay) that they are not welcome/allowed in certain areas more than a bit worrying.

PS At the risk of going all DM, where will it end? Ku Klux Klan type behaviour? And that comment/observation/question is not directed at any particular group.

Last time I was in Acton, a few years back now, it was very, very Irish. In a pub, bit of live Irish music then suddenly everyone (else) standing up looking serious. IRA anthem ... Oops. Missed the standing up moment. A slightly unnerving moment indeed.
Last time I was in Brixton, quite recently, it was not nearly as West Indian as I expected. London is in constant dynamic flux and has been absorbing immigrants for a very long time.
Where I live (in what is possibly the most integrated city in the country) our "good schools" are very ethnically mixed. The lower performing schools have disproportionate numbers of poor working class white kids.

JessM That bit of London has a large Irish, Polish, Somalian, Sikh, Chinese Indian, Caribbean and Arab Muslim community, plus loads of Brit-born people. It is a hugely lively and exciting area with masses of interesting shops and lots of multi-ethnic things going in. I don't recognise the picture presented by the journalist, but if that i how she sees it, then it's true for her. I wasn't blaming her for anything – I was merely explaining how I saw it when I was a resident in the same part of London a short while ago. Loved it.

I think we are loosing the meaning of this thread, which was Do you feel a stranger in your own Country.

I think there are mixed views but it has to be said that we do have alot of immigrants in the UK and it is hard to recognise that you are in the UK in some Cities and some people find that un comfortable and some people dont and I think that unless it effects you directly you probably can not relate to it.

I thought it was about the article in today's Telegraph which is one woman's personal view of where she lives in a suburb of London. In fact the majority posts do reflectopinions of what was in the article and people's feelings about their own experience of living in a mixed community.

I lived most of my life in Acton before I got married and remember it as quite Irish. My friends and I used to go and watch the show bands. By 1970 we had some cypriots moving in and our local Caff became a taverna, but the muslim thing is quite new to me. On the other hand I spent several years working in Southall and at that time it seemed to be multi cultural without being threatening. I used to go into the Indian shops (of which there were MANY!) and buy some of their sweets and the man in our corner shop was always happy to advise on recipes.

I don't like the sound of the muslim patrols. But then again I don't like the thought of young women, skimpily dressed, drunk out of their minds, vomiting on the pavements.

The police need to take care of the lot of it. The mixed populations are there, and a happy medium needs to be found somewhere.

It's up to women if they want to be veiled or not. And whether they wish to look someone in the eye or not is entirely up to them. Not all white women want to do that. We're all different.