The reality behind the deficit cutting.

Anno - excellent link. I'm going to put the address in full so that more people might 'see' it.
falseeconomy.org.uk/
Another interesting website is:
www.positivemoney.org/

OK maybe Ivanhoe is a bit full on but at least he has an opinion - unlike a lot of people in this country who just stick their heads in the sand and say they're not interested in politics. There's always enough money to start wars, to bail out incompetent banks, to pay greedy landlords extortionate amounts of housing benefit for sub-standard accommodation, to cut taxes for the super rich, etc., etc. At the same time, there is never money to build decent homes - I was shocked to see that since the beginning of this coalition government the percentage of people being housed in B&Bs has gone up 800%. And the people of this country already subsidise business by relying on the free services of its citizens (mainly grandparents) in providing childcare.

Joan, Allowing low wages is right wing Tory ideology.

They do see the obvious fact, but they are not Social democrats, they are right wing Tories.

About low wages - how come all these highly educated economists just cannot see the obvious fact, that when you pay low wages you ensure there is less spending, then business suffers fewer customers, while the government gets less tax. The whole country winds down in the end.

Then food banks proliferate.

Allowing low ages is not an economic necessity - it is Tory idealism.

POGS, Food banks have increased across the UK dramatically since the coalition's cuts in housing benefit and the welfare State, began.

And again I say, that we havent had a Labour Government since the 70's.

What we had from 1997 was a New Labour Government who continued with Thatcher's low waged, deregulated free market economy.

Ivanhoe

You maybe right about the Tory's and Lib Dem's.

What about the points raised re the pension statement?.

Yes there are food banks. It has been commentated on times on political programmes and in parliament, the number of food banks went up substantionally whilst Labour were in power. Had there not been a bank crash in 2008 and Labour had not been a prolific waster of the countries money who knows where we would be today.

POGS. As sure as night follows day, I predict that the Lib-Dems and the Tories will we thrown on the political wasteland in 2015.

I predict a Labour landslide.

Tell me, do you have food banks in your region of Britain ?

ivanhoe

"Their pensions policy for the future wont see the light of day"

It has already hasn't it. Or am I wrong in thinking the pension, and state benefits went up 5%. Perhaps other GN's could inform me because I am now doubting what I have said.

"All unemployed people in years to come will get no State Pension, or a diminished State pension in their old age"

Why do you think that. If Tories and Lib Dems are done for, are you saying that Labour will do as you suggest will happen. What factual evidence do you have.

""""Hasn't the pension just increased by 5%. Isn't it the case the government have said there will be a universal pension paid that will now include the self employed and also benefitting women who raised a family and have been loosing out for years."""

The right wing Tory's are a small state low income tax party.

Their pensions policy for the future wont see the light of day because both the Lib-Dems and the Tories are finished.

This future pensions policy completely ignores today's pensioners and just concentrates on tommorrows pensioners and is based on contributions made, there will be an end to means testing for State handouts.

So all unemployed people in years to come will get no State pension, or a diminished State pension in their old age. Millions will be in exatctly the same situation as millions of pensioners today, poor, hungry, and cold.

Morning Ivan

No.

"All the time the British electorate keep voting for privatisation obsessed right wing Government's" The Britsh electorate recently voted for a left wing government for 13 years didn't they. Or is this where you repeat the mantra New Labour were not left wing.

"money will never be used to investment into services or even pay better State pensions, because of the right wing Tories are only interested in privatisation."

Hasn't the pension just increased by 5%. Isn't it the case the government have said there will be a universal pension paid that will now include the self employed and also benefitting women who raised a family and have been loosing out for years.

POGS, My logic is that all the time the British electorate keep voting for privatisation obsessed right wing Government's, no matter how much money is claWed back to this country from wherever it comes, this money will never used to investment into services or even pay better State pensions, because the right wing Tories are only interested in privatisation.

Can you see my logic now ?

For anyone concerned with social justice (and aren't we all?), this is an interesting web site which tells it 'like it is'.

Ivanhoe

Thank you for answering. So you are resigned to the fact that billions will be spent on the EU by our government, whichever colour is in power.

You said on your post at 14.38. "The cost of the EU from the UK amounts to billions a year of British tax payers money, so nobody is going to tell me we are broke."

That to me means you are saying we can't be broke because we give large sums of money to things such as the EU budget, if we didn't we could give more to pensioners. Again I am seeing a muddled thought on your behalf. I simply do not follow your logic.

Morph. To transform shape?

POGS.

"MORPH". that's a word I have'nt heard in a long time. Remind me please, what it means ?

Now then, let me try again regarding your question.

If Labour win the next general election, I expect there would be many changes.

However I dont think we will leave the perifery of the EU because I am aware that Ed Milliband is a pro-European. So our funding into the EU will stay.

"""Would you believe the money spent on the EU would be better off being spent in the UK and not given to the EU""".

This is a hypothetical question. We cant cut our financial tie with Europe.

And Europe will never take on Thatcher's Anglo Saxon deregulated free market that Cameron wants.

So your guess is as good as mine.

Ivanhoe

NO

This is likely to morph into your thread on pensions but here goes.

I still don't know your answer if you think the billions that go to the EU could be better off spent in the UK. Why, because you only said if it was spent here it would be wasted by the Tory's. What if it was a Labour government in situ. Would you believe the money spent on the EU would be better off being spent in the UK and not given to the EU, an institution you have made clear you firmly believe in.

POGS, I'm sorry, I thought I had. "I'm trying very hard with you". Well thank you, I'm very flattered.

To answer your question.

The cost of the EU from the UK, amounts to billions a year of British tax payers money, so nobody is going to tell me we are broke.

If that money was brought back to us under this low income tax, privatisation mad, right wing Tory lead coalition Government, this billions would not be used to fund our essential services, uprate State pensions, or anything esle, because the right wing Tory's do not believe in investment or subsidy, they believe in markets, only.

Does this answer your question ?

Ivanhoe

You still have not answered my question. I am trying very hard with you. Answer my question re the cost of the EU to the UK and how it could benefit the UK if not spent there.

POGS, We wont get anywhere in this country until we stop electing right wing low income tax privatisation free market Tory Government's.

Susieb755, I dont know your age, but the last Labour Government 1997 to 2010 were'nt Labour, because they embraced Thatcher's policies for 13 years.

However ill tell you this. Nationalisation prior to John Major's privatisation, cost Britain tax payers £100 billion a year.

Wheras privatisation to date costs British tax payers ""£400 billion a year to subsidize.

And regarding housing, I believe in a universal council housing programme.

Personally I think the government should stop wasting money on rail franchises that they bollocks up to the tune of £49m to the taxpayer, and as franchises end, re nationlise them, so profits get invested in public transport, and not into their cronies ( whoops shareholders) pockets.

I would also re nationalise utilities, including buses, re introduce the fair rent act, and buy back our social housing stock........... one can dream can't they ?

While left wing myself, I dont agree with everything labour did, for example the future schools programme wasted millions on architects fees as each school was individually designed - instead of following the victorian example of one design rolled out nationwide.

Ivanhoe

You obviously are all for being in the EU. You espouse the EU bureaucracy with with passion.

May I therefore ask you another question. What do you think about the fact our net contribution to the EU was for example in 2010 £5.9 BILLION POUNDS,that's after our rebate. Do you not think if that money was spent in the UK we could give more to benefit's and support to the people of Wales, Scotland, England and Northern Ireland?.

A tale told by an idiot

"Narrow minded right wingers"? Oh for goodness' sake, Ivanhoe, there may be a few brave right-wing thinkers on here but there are also a good many left-leaning posters who, while agreeing with much of your analysis, have consistently asked you for your solution to the problems of poverty in the elderly and received no sensible response. If you're trying to get up our noses you've succeeded with me. I am not going to debate with you any longer as you are not prepared to do likewise.

"Sound and fury, signifying nothing".

ooooh, an infestation