Gransnet forums

News & politics

Wish list for Britain

(140 Posts)
janthea Mon 11-Feb-13 13:18:21

I was talking to a friend last, to whom I haven't spoken for ages. Naturally we set the world to rights. This made me think about how I felt about the current political situation and others things. So I set out it down. I warn you it's a long post and you may get bored. Say what you want! It won't upset me. If I like that you say, I'm pleased. If not, I don't care. So here goes:

I was thinking about what I wanted for Britain as a whole and here is my wish list:

I want everyone to be proud of being British.

I want the NHS to be the best. This is not going to happen as long as we allow illegal immigrants and others, who have paid no taxes or insurance to come here and claim benefits. This does not help anyone as the service is under severe strain. If you are sick in a European country, you have to pay and then claim back the money on your return to the UK. Why don’t we do that here? Look at the mistakes you keep reading about – children sent home and told ‘it’s only a virus’ and then die of something more serious. Cancers not caught in time because the symptoms have been missed as ‘nothing’. It’s can’t go on.

We can’t allow unrestricted immigration as we are a small island and there must be a tipping point. It may have already been reached. Services and infrastructure suffer because of too many people claiming benefits. I have no objection to people coming here working and paying their taxes.

The same goes for education. The standard needs to be raised considerably and not dumbed down to the lowest level. The problem in many schools is that English is not the first language and therefore children whose first language is English are held back by the rest of the classes. The problem lies with parents who come here and don’t make an effort to learn English and therefore their children have problems. I like cultural diversity but not to the detriment of Britain.

Justice needs to be toughened up! Stopping using the European Human Rights Act as an excuse not to punish or deport foreign criminals. People should serve the full sentence they are handed down and not let out after about a quarter of time served. I believe in the death penalty for crimes such as those where children are raped, tortured and killed. And if anyone did that to one of my children or grandchildren, I would happily throw the switch.

Religion – I think all religions should be tolerant of other religions. People are entitled to believe what they want, even if they list Jedi as their religion!

Politics – I am a Conservative and would never vote anything else, but I’m disappointed with David Cameron. I think he’s favours the Lib Dums too much. I know it’s hard for him in a coalition government, but he does need to stand up and be counted. UKIP is a little too much for me, although I agree with some of their policies (leaving the EU for instance). I suppose I’m somewhere between David Cameron and UKIP.

That's it!! gringrin

Ivanhoe Wed 13-Feb-13 23:52:21

susieb755 , I liked John Smith.

But there should have been a return to industry and manufacturing from a Labour Government following the dreadful short termism of the Thatcher/Major years.

Sadly this was not to be. We got more of the same free market ideology, but as you say, susieb, we got a minimum wage.

I wonder what Ed Milliband will do ?. What political direction he will go when Labour win the next general election ?

susieb755 Wed 13-Feb-13 23:03:08

Gosh what a debate

And wouldn't life have been different if John Smith hadn't died.....

I agree with Ivanhoe that new labour weren't traditionally working class, and regret some of their decisions, however we should not forget that they introduced the minimum wage, WFTC, and radically improved childcare and early years standards ( although i do not agree with the foundation stage learning per se )

The future jobs fund programme was working well - we had 12 FJF at one time, and only 1 didn't get a job, and frankly it was because she didn't want one !

However woolly new labour were, I am still reeling from the betrayal by the lib dems , and cannot believe anyone could take cameron seriously

nightowl Wed 13-Feb-13 22:40:39

I wouldn't dream of blaming immigrants for all the ills of this country Ivanhoe, nor am I sure that anyone is doing so, but there needs to be a distinction drawn between immigration and migration. The latter has brought many challenges to public services and the benefits system. Not all migrants will have worked before claiming benefits.

As for the 'no recourse to public funds' this can be quite misleading where families are concerned. They may not be entitled to benefits but they will be supported financially by the local Children's Department. Hence they do receive public money but from a different purse.

These are simple facts, I have no particular axe to grind.

Ana Wed 13-Feb-13 22:15:59

And like you keep saying - Thatcher is to blame for all the ills of this country. Move on - put forward some solutions!

Ivanhoe Wed 13-Feb-13 22:14:14

nightowl, Maybe so, but they still have paid in while working.

Over the years unemployment caused by stringent free market monetarist policies since Thatcher created over 3 million unemployed is the reason.

Like some people keep saying on this site. Immigrants are a good target to blame for the ills of this country.

nightowl Wed 13-Feb-13 21:50:56

EU migrants however do have rights to benefits in this country. It is perhaps the increase in the numbers of migrants over the last few years that has caused some pressure on our benefits system.

Ivanhoe Wed 13-Feb-13 21:47:47

susieb755 , people believe what they want to believe, what they are lead to believe.

Eastern immigrants who come to this country arent allowed any benefits. They have to work for a full years before being allowed benefits, and then they only receive one third what British claimants receive.

Asylum seekers are'nt allowed to work by law. They get vouchers.

POGS Wed 13-Feb-13 21:38:29

Susieb

Thank you for your reply. I thought you were relating the comment to the Stafford Hospital Report or something I had posted. I hadn't cottoned on to your comment being about immigration.

susieb755 Wed 13-Feb-13 21:33:11

POGS - people thinking that immigrants come over here and have instant access to benefits, that do not understand we have rules about 'no recourse to public funds'.................

Ivanhoe Wed 13-Feb-13 20:30:52

nanaej , It's my pleasure.

nanaej Wed 13-Feb-13 20:26:25

Glad to find a like minded thinker Ivanhoe

Ivanhoe Wed 13-Feb-13 20:04:11

nanaej New Labour under Blair felt it needed to make itself electable to what they believe the middle classes wanted.

I know stacks of extremely well off people who are socialist.

And I agree 100 per cent with the following, -

""I do believe that Thatcher's legacy is still a force and Cameron knows that and is playing on it. I understand the need to be pragmatic to become appealing to the electorate but to lose so many core principles I feel meant that Labour no longer put the needs of its traditional supporters at the heart of its manifesto.
All three main parties are centre moving right.""

Bang on.

nanaej Wed 13-Feb-13 19:48:36

* VQ* & Ivanhoe I am middle class but my core political beliefs are far more socialist than current Labour. Not sure if that is of any consequence!

I do believe that Thatcher's legacy is still a force and Cameron knows that and is playing on it. I understand the need to be pragmatic to become appealing to the electorate but to lose so many core principles I feel meant that Labour no longer put the needs of its traditional supporters at the heart of its manifesto.
All three main parties are centre moving right. sad

Ivanhoe Wed 13-Feb-13 19:32:41

vampirequeen , my blinkers have always been off, and there is a lot of truth in what you say.

vampirequeen Wed 13-Feb-13 18:57:10

Ivanhoe please remove your blinkers. Whilst the Blair government had moved over to the centre it was in no way like the Thatcher government. They inherited a host of problems and had to function in a totally different world to that which existed when they were previously in power.

The electorate would simply not have elected a truly socialist parliament.

There was no hard core working class labour vote in 2010 and there hadn't been for a long time. The hard core working class vote was found in the industrial heartlands. Most of these were destroyed to a great extent in the 1980s when Maggie decided to break the hold the workers had on society. She said she would put us in our place but most didn't realise she meant on our knees until it was too late.

Blair inherited a nation desperate for change but not a nation desperate to return to the past.

I was born into the party. Some of my earliest memories are playing with other children at the local party headquarters whilst our mams put leaflets in envelopes. I've done my time canvassing and knocking out. I went to my first count when I was 14. I didn't want to change but I saw the way the world was going. It was a case of adaptation or extinction.

We live in a democracy and as such we need to appeal to the maximum number of voters. We can't do that if we only offer them hard line socialism. By softening our approach we can ensure that the NHS, education and welfare is protected as much as possible. Yes, it may be a rearguard action but at least we're still in there fighting.

annodomini Wed 13-Feb-13 18:06:00

Well said, Ariadne.

Ariadne Wed 13-Feb-13 17:27:40

Working class girl, became teacher VQ! We know where it's at, and what life is really like, unlike those who simply preach. I am reminded of Chaucer's parson:

"But first he wroght, and afterward he taught."

That is what I believe at my best, but I would extend it to humanity, unconfined to these islands.

Ivanhoe Wed 13-Feb-13 17:20:39

vampirequeen , New Labour did indeed become the new Thatcherite Government, just to get into power.

I dont know what class you are, but Labour lost it's core working class vote in 2010, which is why it didnt win, and we got this dreadful coalition.

I became a Labour party activist in 1987, but when when Labour took on right wing policies like privatisation, my local Labour party dissolved.

I never believed in privatisation of our railways or our utilities, prices have rocketed in both.

vampirequeen Wed 13-Feb-13 16:59:29

The party didn't ditch it's core values it simply adapted to the prevailing situation. People didn't and don't want a revolutionary party anymore. If Labour hadn't changed it would have been unelectable and we would be looking at it being the third party.

Imagine that a revolutionary party had got in and renationalised the energy, transport and telecommunications industries. Where would they have got the money from to compensate the shareholders? It would have meant raising taxes to raise the money or not paying compensation. You might say why should they compensate shareholders? Well many shares at that time were still held by individuals who were encouraged to invest. These were not people with lots of money but those on modest incomes and even pensioners. Other major share holders were the pension schemes. How would you justify taking their money and reducing the pensions they could pay out. Either way would destroy the chance of returning to government.

Can I ask what you have against the middle classes? In fact can you explain to me what makes someone middle class.

I'm a bus driver's daughter who went on to be a teacher and is now on benefits. What class am I?

Ivanhoe Wed 13-Feb-13 15:13:16

phoenix, """Grant me the courage to change the things I can change
The fortitude to bear the things I cannot change
And the wisdom to know the difference""

Or, Grant me the courage to step out of my comfort zone if I ever had one, and suffer the ridicule of others because I'm saying what I believe""

Ivanhoe Wed 13-Feb-13 15:10:38

vampirequeen , Tony Blair took Labour to the right in 1997 and embraced Margaret Thatcher's free market ideology.

Following the Thatcher Major 18 years in Government, Labour changed to suit an up and coming middle class vote that ditched Labour prior to the 80's and voted for Thatcher.

I for one, never believed any political party should ditch its core values, most of all to take on board a fickle British middle class electorate.

Values are values, and political parties should stick to their values or we end up with a bunch of political parties all the same, which is what we have now.

vampirequeen Wed 13-Feb-13 14:49:47

I don't think the Labour Party embraced Thatcherism. The country they inherited after Maggie was a totally different place. Maggie had privatised our nationalised industries, our mines and heavy industry had collapsed, the NHS and education had been 'reformed' and capitalism was much more ingrained than it had been.

The Labour Party has changed. It's not the revolutionary party it used to be but then the world has changed too. People have different ideas and expectations nowadays and, much as it pains me to say it, Old Labour would be unelectable.

Ivanhoe Wed 13-Feb-13 13:23:45

Movedalot , The Labour party ditched their core values and embraced Thatcherism to suit the middle classes who had ditched Labour and voted Tory.

Anne58 Wed 13-Feb-13 13:14:53

I am put in mind of the AA prayer (I think, and forgive me if I mis-quote it)

Grant me the courage to change the things I can change
The fortitude to bear the things I cannot change
And the wisdom to know the difference.

Ana Wed 13-Feb-13 13:08:30

Absolutely.