Old people having to sell home to pay for care is discrimination and ageism

Barrow, Does Australia have a right wing Government ?

I ask this because as I see things, when working people pay into the system their taxes and other contributions, then workers have an entitlement to be looked after fully by the State when they are old.

What say you ?

Have you thought about joining the Communist Party, Ivanhoe? I think you'd feel very at home there.

Like vampirequeen says, the welfare state was set up as a safety net. I certainly don't expect "the state" to keep me even though my DH and I worked full time all our working lives and paid NI and tax for over 40 years. What I do expect is that if I become ill I can be admitted to a hospital which is clean and staffed by competent and caring nurses.

My DH was only unemployed once and that was when he was about 20, he went to the then Labour Exchange and was so disgusted at his treatment that he left, started his own business and never claimed anything from the state until he became terminally ill. The only time I ever claimed anything (apart from my pension) was when I had cancer 17 years ago, and even then I went back to work early against Doctors advice. My DH died aged 63 so didn't get to claim his pension. So it could be said that we haven't received anything like the amount that we paid in over the years.

Barrow, Are you a native Australian ?

vampirequeen, the original welfare State was set up to look after people from cradle to grave.

I still believe in this ideal.

I believe the way things are going, with this no such things as society, just individuals mantra that came from Thatcher, that pretty soon we wont need Government's at all, which will do away with the democratic vote.

Why vote for Government's if they spend their time telling us we have to look after ourselves, but continuing to say we will spend your taxes around the world in the name of "great Britain".?????????

Ivanhoe no I am English, my Mother moved to Australia after my Father's death to live with my Brother, which she did until she had a stroke and had to move into a Nursing Home.

Barrow, May I ask your age, and how long you have lived in Australia ?

ivanhoe No - and I live in UK, I have visited Australia but never lived there.

Thanks Barrow. I apologise for asking your age.

Why I asked about your native land is because of what you said about the welfare state in Britain, it came across as the sort of comment the average Britain would say, hence my enquiry to you.

I speak to Australians on email, they believe as I do, that workers taxes and other contributions should deliver adequate amenities on reach old age.

I will find out more and print the information so everybody can read it.

Britain's system since Thatcher in the 80's, has been ultra right wing, merciless, and with a Dickensian mindset.

We dont look after our most vulnerable citizens, including our old, and as such I have spent years online trying to find out how things are done in other countries.

Cradle to the grave still exists. There are neo-natal to geriatric wards. Child benefit to pensions. How do you feel about the middle classes, who you appear to dispise, losing child benefit btw?

The welfare state was never set up to take away our self sufficiency. Although I'm repeating myself, it's a safety net. It's there to make sure that if we're in need we won't be left to starve. It wasn't created so that some people can choose not to work....and before you start telling me there are no jobs out there I should point out that my husband has been offered two jobs this week. But then he's not a job snob and doesn't expect to be paid silly money.

What are you saying the government spend our taxes on abroad...aid or war?

vampirequeen, I dont despise ""the middle classes" at all, just those who voted for Thatcher in the 80's and ditched Labour when doing it, thus giving us 18 rotten years of right wing Tory rule which lead to a labour landslide, which Tony Blair turned on its head and gave us Thatcherism again.

I agree with universal Child Benefit. I agree with even millionaires getting it.

I think everybody is self sufficiant. I dont buy this rubbishy "feckless" word.

I know there are bad people in all walks of life, but politics and people turning on them, makes things harder for the genuine.

Maggie got in because a lot of working class people especially women voted for her. You can't just blame the middle classes.

vampirequeen, im not, but they are part to blame. I often wonder how many woman now regret that vote ?

If everybody were self-sufficient, Ivanhoe, we wouldn't need the benefits system at all....

Everyone knows they are likely to grow old, so they should plan for it if at all possible. No one knows when they are going to have a disabled child, or become blind, or whatever other care you are thinking of Snowy1. So those things can't be planned for.

Ana, If everybody was self sufficiant, we wouldnt need Government's.

Quite. I was quoting you, Ivanhoe

"I think everybody is self sufficiant. I dont buy this rubbishy "feckless" word."

Snowy1, Your right.

But if your a Tory voter, you have brought this on yourself because the Tory's dont believe in State intervention.

How do we persuade our Grandchildren to "save" for their old age when they see those who have never made the effort get the same (or better) as those who have?

For instance, I know somebody who has bought 3 houses in the past 50 years and done them. The total value is about 10 million. In the process of selling them one by one to avoid tax, which is fair enough. So if and when they need care, they will still have "ONLY" 9mio25 to give to their children. Socialism? I don't think so. As said, doing it the other way round is much better - spend your savings, including the house- until you have about 75.000 to leave to your children - then the State picks up the bill. Much fairer- the proposed system will benefit those who have no savings and no house to sell (for whatever reasons, including having spent all recklessly and not made provisions for old age) or the rich who have houses worth a lot of money, perhaps bought for little a long time ago. Why should children expect to inherit vasts sums of money whilst much less off people have to pay via their taxes.

My mam's house isn't worth anything like that amount of money and why should she have to sell it to pay when others don't have to. She could let it and us the money to supplement her pension and make her final years easier.

Pennysue , How do you know others havent made the effort ?

judgements, judgements, judgements. That's all im reading.

No wonder Tory government's last so long in power, they find it so easy to divide the people.

When my mother-in-law needed care & we weren't in a position to give it, her house was solld, the proceeds divided between her 2 children who then invested th emoney to pay for her care. We invested in a porperty near us & are now using the profits from the sale (not that much) for our retirement & to help our kids.
I haven't been able to read all the posts so it may have been covered but don't we have to make a distinction between medical care & 'hotel' costs though these are easily blurred, usually against the old person.
Rather than giving my money to a wealthy care home owner I'd prefer to end my life in a civilised way, if there ever were one, or sell our house & help daughter buy a larger home with grandma/pa annexe & buy in home care (so as not to be too much of a burden to off-spring). I hope the relationship I am now building with grandkids through childcare will mean someone will care for & about me even if daughter & I come to blows!

That seems to be all you're writing too.

I think it grossly unjust to expect the Have-nots to subsidise the Haves, and I am one of the Haves