Old people having to sell home to pay for care is discrimination and ageism

If you can rent out your "family home" and it provides sufficient income to pay for your care in old age, then fine. If you have to sell it, then I think that's fine too.

If what amounts to extra inheritance tax is introduced to pay for universal care in old age, then in principle, I am not against it. (I pay for schools, for example, but have no school age children – that's how universal taxes work.) However, the scheme then has to be fair and what is currently being presented is a long way from fair. The £75,000 cap is deceitful and there needs to be some sort of financial recognition of those family members who look after their frail elderly relatives.

Ivanhoe

I think you are a fair weather socialist. I say socialist loosely as I am finding you a bit of an enigma, full of contradictions.

You want the tax payer/government to pay for your life style, not take responsibility for it yourself.

You want the the tax payer/government to tax the rich and give to the poor, not when it might take money from you though if it means you might loose out.

POGS, What an imagination you have, full of judgments about someone you dont know.

IE, me.

But Ivanhoe are you not judgemental about people you don't know? It certainly seems that way to me.

No, not individuals POGS.

Ivanhoe

Fair enough.

Ivanhoe you asked "How do you know others havent made the effort ?"

Living in the same town all our life working alongside the same people (who would have earned the same sort of wages) - we saved and tried to make provision for our retirement and get nothing. They get help from all sorts of agencies.

I say again, how do we persuade our Grandchildren to save for their old age. They are caring people for those less fortunate than themselves through no fault of their own, as I hope we are, but they see the feckless getting houses etc. while there is no way they can afford/get a mortgage to buy a home.

I get sick of hearing "we went without" or "we sacrificed this that or the other" or "we saved for our old age " .....

Some people are not in the position to save anything. They work hard and every penny they get goes on heating, food and clothing themselves and their children.

There will always be those who "milk" the system but please don't assume everyone is the same.

It does have a rather self-righteous tone to it doesn't it gillybob?

gillybob, I agree totally with your first sentence. But your end sentence I get sick of hearing/reading.

""there will always be those who "milk" the system but please don't assume everyone is the same"".

Please tell me how you think some people "milk" the system. ?

Pennysue, Okay lets discuss this term "made the effort" ?.

In your view, what precisely does it mean ?

There will always be people who, through no fault of their own, were unable to save and make provision for their old age, these are the people the welfare system was designed to help.

I am in the fortunate position to have a property, it therefore follows that, should I need to be in a nursing home, that property should be sold to pay for that care. However, my case is perhaps different from many GNs because I don't have children. I know those with children would want to leave something for their children and that is understandable, but I wonder whether those children would prefer the money be spent on their parents care.

Of course this is on the assumption that care homes will be staffed by competent and caring people!

It seems to me that some posters have focussed on the very poor and some on the very rich but they are the minority. So we have 'the squeezed middle' again, the ones who pay their taxes and never claim state benefits.

Sometimes they pay for their children's education and sometimes for private medical care and they save for their old age, their choice. Sometimes they go without holidays, meals out, new cars, they don't drink and don't smoke to pay for these things. Some of them, who could afford to, don't. They use everything the state provides, medical care, education etc. They have expensive holidays, cars and social life.

When they need care in their old age the ones who provided for themselves will have to pay but the ones who spent all they had will be provided for by the state. Imo this is what this discussion should be about, not those at the extremes of the spectrum.

Barrow maybe those of us with children who potentially have something to leave to their children should give it to them now and put ourselves in the same position as those who don't?

POGS,

""Ivanhoe

I think you are a fair weather socialist. I say socialist loosely as I am finding you a bit of an enigma, full of contradictions.

You want the tax payer/government to pay for your life style, not take responsibility for it yourself.

You want the the tax payer/government to tax the rich and give to the poor, not when it might take money from you though if it means you might loose out""."""""""""

This is another term splashed around in general by I would think, many people, but this time aimed at me, and to which I have already responded to you about.

But POGS, as you wrote it. Can you please explain why you wrote it ? , it could easily have been aimed at someone else, maybe someone else that again you didnt really know.

I would like to know "where this type of thinking comes from" ?.

Because when I started work in the 60's and always had work including a 13 year period on the PO, I never was aware of such talk even in my more adult working years.

From my point of view, this type of labeling only began when Thatcher took office and created over 3 million unemployed, which is now what's happening under Cameron.

Please explain POGS.

Movedalot, Do you think being unemployed in Britain is stigmatized ?

Do you think the unemployed are stigmatized ?

Also Britain has the highest divorce rate compared to western European.

I draw your attention to this from you. """"So we have 'the squeezed middle' again, the ones who pay their taxes and never claim state benefits""""""

I think you generalize too much here.

But your posting is a good example of how divided my country is today, we have been successfully in my view, pitted against each other.

Ivanhoe no and no although I have no idea why you have asked me the questions.

On this subject we all have to generalise as it is not about individuals.

Movedalot, But this sentence, stays.

""But your posting is a good example of how divided my country is today, we have been successfully in my view, pitted against each other"".........

Ivanhoe I am sure I really don't need to explain the term "milking the system" to you.

As I said several posts back my parents sold their very modest ex-council home a few years ago in order to into local authority housing suitable to my mums needs. Their house wasn't worth a lot and the money went in the bank and was declared in full to the local authority. Several years later and after paying £120 per week rent and full council tax their money is almost gone.

They could have easily put the money into my or my sisters account, given the money away, spent it on a world cruise, put it under the mattress etc. and have their rent and council tax paid in full.

Ivanhoe

You have put your politics out very strongly on various threads. You have been 'inviting' other GN's to respond, have you not?. If this is not the case then what has been your intention, to preach, to use GN as your personal soap box. If I have offended you then I will apologise, I was under the impression you were capable of dishing it out and taking it back. I am sorry I was wrong in that view.

I do feel that whilst I am happy to apologise I must point out that you too can be, dare I say it, happy to 'label' some of us too. For example you have declared on one thread "I don't despise the middle classes, just those who voted for Thatcher". Despise is a very harsh word to use in my opinion and you were telling some GN's what you thought about them as individuals. On another thread did you not say to ceesnan "Then you are part responsible for the awful state of this country". It is precisely because of those type of comments from you I felt you were not uncomfortable to make individual comments and hence I spoke my mind.

If anyone understands Ivanhoe's latest post to me please do not bother to explain it.

POGS, You are bang on. I apologise to all the people I might have offended.

gillygob, I would like you to explain, please.

If any people in Britain are "milking the system", to quote yourself.

It is private landlords charging very high rents. And its MP's getting none means tested allowances, perks and expenses, they "do not need" on a £60 plus thousand a year salary.

B----Y HELL

Oh Ivanhoe I was wrong, you do need me to explain !

To sum up:

To milk the system means to take advantage of a set of procedures beyond what those rules were designed to provide.

Whether it be MP's claiming expenses (your example), someone claiming a benefit to which they are not entitled, claiming housing benefit with £75k under the mattress, claiming unemployment benefit and working "on the fiddle" etc.

I am sure we could think of a hundred more examples if we wanted to.