Is a child murderer vulnerable?

Good point Absent

Absent - you have put what I meant much more lucidly. It's also really important to separate out how, as individuals, we would feel towards the perpetrator and how s/he should be treated by the state. It will be interesting to find out what the two 'avengers' were in prison for - dropping litter

Of course we cannot and should not tolerate attacks on convicted criminals by other prisoners. Child murderers and sexual offenders, however loathsome their crimes, are vulnerable to attacks in prison. It wasn't long ago that a number of women had their convictions for killing their children crushed. Presumably all those who rejoice in this prisoner's murder and express the inhumane desire for his death to have been "slow and painful" would have felt the same way about those women before their convictions were overturned.

We shouldn't never stop talking about it, but just please be aware that the way some things are said do hit a raw nerve.

Sorry glass the curse of crossed posts again.

aga I share your wish that the perpetrators should die a slow and painful death. At the same time I am glad we have a justice system that does not sanction this. I have seen the damage done to victims in both a professional capacity and also a personal one - it was not me that was the victim but someone very close to me. I can honestly say it robbed this person of their childhood and is still ruining their life. I know the reasons that particular perpetrator acted as they did but it was nothing to do with mental illness or mental disorder of any kind.

I suppose when I suggested we shouldn't speculate I was thinking of glass and others who may find it difficult to see on this forum.

Thought provoking discussion.... oh how I wish it was just that.

Sorry cant get the hang of these icon things . Going to bed now. Thanks for the thought provoking discussion

Moon

I was responding to night owls post

J08 ...... I think you know what I mean.

Do you mean you are not sure about it? # thesarusinpainfulplace

Slow and painful that is.
am not sure it is unfair as it is such an important issue if we are to gain understanding and help prevent it happening. Yes it's a sensitive issue ,and surely very painful for some, whose feelings I deeply respect.

I do hear what you are all saying about the official definitions of mental disorders and personality disorders, and perhaps you have professional experience of such.I suppose I am looking at the term insane loosely, as I cannot understand how any normal human being could inflict such mental and physical pain on anyone, particularly a child. Perhaps I am just naive. having said this, I have a certain amount of cognitive dissonance in wanting to see the perpetrators suffer a low and painful demise.

It's an enormously complex subject, and it's perhaps unfair to carry on speculating about it when it directly affects so many people on this forum - it must do, by the laws of statistics. I have seen more adult victims take their own lives than I have seen victims become abusers. That's the real tragedy.

aga psychopathy is a form of mental disorder but it is a personality disorder (there are many different types) and not a mental illness. People with personality disorders are as responsible for their actions as anyone else.

The majority of child sexual abusers are not criminally insane. They are found in families, neighbours, helping organisations, amongst communities and are usually indistinguishable until a disclosure about their behaviour is made. If they were mad or psychopathic, children and their protectors would most likely be wary of their 'strangeness' and avoid them.

And all credit to them,but I can understand (though not from personal experience) that suffering abuse could seriously damage a person and cause them to behave in the opposite way.

, glass. when has described you perfectly.

There is a lovely book called 'Strong at the Broken Places' by Linda T Sandon. You don't have to read it to know what the message is. I have been inspired and in awe of the way that many people who were abused as children have transformed their own and others' lives by turning their childhood experiences into being protective and caring of their own and other children, being able to cherish them because they have a heightened awareness of what abuse can do to a child.

Glass

It's tricky when posts cross isn't it.

To recognise that someone is a psycopath (which must be some kind of mental illness) is not saying that all people with mental illness are psychopaths. Just thought I 'd add this too explain that I am not tarring abused people or people with mental illness with the same brush!!!

My reply was to agapanthus - came in a bit late!

Yes, but those accused of such crimes are examined to determine whether they are in fact insane. If they are, and are found guilty, they're sent to a secure mental hospital. If not, they go to prison. We may think someone would have to be insane to commit such terrible acts, but we have to accept the decision of psychiatrists as to whether they are, or were, actually of sound mind.

Sadly aga I think the majority of abusers are extremely sane. I believe this man was in prison rather than hospital, which suggests that he was not deemed to have a mental illness.