Nelson Mandela

Oh Bags. Have a heart. Can't you imagine what he means to the people of South Africa?

Madiba (the affectionate term used for him which means ^Father of the Nation^) is beyond an icon to South African people. Only someone who actually experienced the turbulent years and the nation's collective efforts to rebuild its self-esteem after the first democratic elections will ever understand what Nelson Mandela means to every South African. Almost singlehandedly, his pragmatic leadership, capacity for forgiveness, genuine love for his country and statesmanship averted a civil war. I'd go so far as to say he is worshipped.

As for the "the country mustn't panic" - South Africans are straight talkers, with the added benefit of a bit of soul. So that's what that's all about.

Grannyknot - you are so right. Do you remember the emotion of that first election? I remember a pregnant women being interviewed in one of those endless queues outside the polling stations - she said I am voting twice today - once for me and once for my unborn child. And I remember Tutu coming out after voting for the first time ever and saying Yippee! I know it's sad how it hasn't worked out as we would have hoped but without Mandela it would have been worse . There are lots of things I'll never forgive Thatcher for but her attitude towards Mandela and apartheid is top of my list.

Of course I can imagine what he means to South Africa – to the whole world! That's not the point. Of course people will grieve when he dies, and it will be heartfelt grief, and anyone who was around when apartheid was in place and did what they could to change things (which includes me), will feel some grief. That's not the point either. People die. It's certainly something to feel grief about, and the sadness of the passing of a great man, but "panic"? That's just silly.

And that is a very silly little thing to pick up on. Does this kind of thread give you some sort of kick?

Weird.

I remember that day bluebell John Humphries had the temerity to ask a pregnant woman how she would cast her vote (in his best, lets patronise ordinary people voice). You could almost hear her drawing herself up to her full height as she replied "It's supposed to be a secret."

People in South Africa will find this very hard. He means so much to them, and rightly so. I am not sure about the choice of the word panic but lets not get hung up on that. I am sure their pm is right to start everyone thinking in the direction of preparing themselves for what they know is inevitable soon. I do not think there is any equivalent to Mandela over here for us to imagine how they might feel.

bluebell I will never forget the election in 1994. A lot of people were quite apprehensive and didn't know what to expect. Weeks before I had hidden beneath an overhanging bougainvillea hedge at the back of our garden because a mass of people had surged down our tiny crescent toyi-toying and singing and with 'traditional weapons' held high and rattled my (padlocked) garden gate and I was, well, scared. So we took ourselves off to the Drakensberg mountains over that period which meant standing in one of those all day queues in a dusty rural village to cast our vote. It was probably the most moving day I will ever experience. I cannot describe the emotion and atmosphere of that day.

Bags you're welcome to your opinion, but if South Africans want to be silly and panic about Mandela being near the end of his life, leave them to it.

jings, please stop being so personal in your remarks. I am not responsible for your emotions on this or any other subject. The fact that I can distinguish between panic and sadness is not weird.

I suspect that the use of English and its nuances is different in S Africa.

He is a great man, but also a very old man who has lived through some very "interesting times." I hope they don't strive too much to keep him alive beyond sensible comfort and dignity.

grannyknot, of course I'll leave them to it, but their president doesn't seem to think panicking is a good idea either. What good would it do? None. What hamr might it do? Possibly plenty.

I all for a huge wake or however they want to mark Mandela's death when he does die. I expect the rest of the world will join in too, and quite rightly.

Mishap, perhaps so. I hope so.

English is not the first language of most of the people in South Africa (nor mine) and of course the nuances and the use of the language is different. I remember when I first came to the UK and I said at work I was concerned about something (which in South Africa means "a little bit worried") - God I was whipped in to the manager's office as fast as can be "to address my concerns". I didn't know what she was on about.

I'd interpret concerned as a little bit worried too.

When did you leave SA, grannyknot? Is it your native country?

I rather suspect that 'panic' is code for the very possible escalation of tribal and racial tensions which are held in an uneasy balance. The fact that Mandela lives, however frail he may be, still has a powerful effect on South Africa.

Parallels are never exact, but remember what happened to former Jugoslavia after Tito died.

A wise comment, mice.

You see, it was a good idea to raise this subject, if only to have that slant – which I hadn't thought of yet – put on it.

I've said this on other threads: I am third generation South African born of an Afrikaans-speaking mother who raised her 3 children as a single parent. I did some of my schooling (classes) in English in high school in what was in those days 'parallel medium' schools (where English and Afrikaans pupils mixed freely) because there weren't enough Afrikaner children in the predominantly English speaking province I grew up in, to make up the "academic stream". I am married to a Scot who grew up in South Africa since the age of 10; and we have been living in the UK since 2000.

MiceElf you are right to a certain extent. And in South Africa "don't panic" is a reassuring phrase, as in "everything will be okay". So when Jacob Zuma says that, South Africans will understand what he means.

... and I suppose that should be "what were in those days" - (before the pedant police get on my case!)

Thanks, gknot.

I also speak Zulu by they way*. Here you go, language demographics in South Africa (from Wikipedia):

"The most common language spoken at home by South Africans is Zulu (23 percent speak Zulu at home), followed by Xhosa (16 percent), and Afrikaans (14 percent). English is the fourth most common home language in the country (9.6%), but is understood in most urban areas and is (mainly for political reasons) the dominant language in government and the media.[9]

The majority of South Africans speak a language from one of the two principal branches of the Bantu languages represented in South Africa*.

That's the way I interpreted the 'don't panic' remark, MiceElf.