Thatcher has died

Unions do an enormous amount of individual case work inbetween calling strikes and holding the country to ransom

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Another example. There were 49 deaths in the construction industry last year. Part of the reason for that was the fact that many companies force workers to be 'self employed' rather than directly employed. This gives these companies a lot of leeway over H&S measures. UCATT has a campaign at the moment trying to get Boris Johnson to support this - to no avail.

absent I am sorry you misread my post to agapanthus I was thanking her for doing the job for me.

Oh, and if it wasn't for the teaching unions many local authorities would still be refusing to address the issue of asbestos in the fabric of school buildings. Sadly, for some, not all, employers, unless they are forced, they will not act in the best interests of their workforce.

Speaking of the sometimes ridiculous emphasis put on H & S these days. we are required to fill out a full risk assessment on any work we do. This often takes many hours to do and contains such stupid things as......

Task.... remove bolt from machine

Risk..... Machine is quite large. Bolt situated above ground level. Engineer needs to reach bolt. Will need to use steps.

Action point..... Carry (yellow)steps to machine site. Put up sign drawing attention to Engineer working above ground level. Position second engineer at base of steps whilst Engineer removing bolt.

That is just for one bloody bolt a full strip down or installation job will be pages and pages long.

and its all for insurance purposes not to look after the welfare of the workman/woman.

Most companies have HR and H & S Depts to ensure compliance with current legislation. If a company doesn't comply, there are legal remedies.

gillybob I could not agree more

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

The vast amount of companies are SME's and they do not have either the staff levels or the resources to employ someone who's sole responsibility is H & S or even HR. they tend to have dogs-bodies like me who have to do everything from payroll (don't get me started with the tax man). the VAT (see previous) HR, H & S, quotes, insurance(s), vehicles, orders,invoicing, book-keeping, making tea, entertaining visitors, washing the bloody floors, emptying the bin......

God I hate my job.

bluebell ooops

gillybob it's not a job when it's your own business. Think long term

You are kidding Sel it's 10 times worse. Think long term? I have been here for over 20 years and I think I have "done a long term" don't you?

bluebell as your daughter worked in HR I am surprised she was so distressed. She would have known her rights and would have known there was no possibility she would have been unfairly disadvantaged by being on maternity leave. The opposite is the case. I don't really think she needed the union although others might have.

gilly I think you may have solved a conundrum DH and I have been talking about for years. That must be why every time we pass roadworks we count one person working and about 5 standing around vaguely watching what is going on - H & S

Perhaps it also explains why there has to be 5 miles of coned off lanes on the motorway for a 10 foot bit of work.

gillybob been there, done that, even the floor scrubbing Very lucky to sell out and retire early. It's not just the unrelenting work, it's the pressure of being where the buck stops.

moved it's funny unless you're in a rush - it's also a permanent state of affairs it seems on some motorways, especially the M25.

I used to laugh at the US with their disclaimers but as gilly said, it's about legalities. Sure lots of it comes down from the EU. Gives lots of people work that's for sure.

I kid you not Movedalot (oh that rhymes) . We have to carry out a full risk assessment for every tiny little thing we do and some of the so called risks are ridiculous. We once did some work for a large (well known company in the NE) and did our usual risk assessment. Their Elf 'n'safety bod rang to say the assessment was not thorough enough and we needed to go into much more detail before we could commence work. I decided to play them at their own game and although it took me ages it was worth it just imagining the look on his face when he got it !

Risk: Getting to factory. could jam fingers in van door, could hurt back carrying tools into back of van, van could crash on the way to factory etc.

Action: Engineer to wear thick gloves in order to minimize risk of hurting fingers, employ 2 labourers to help carry tools, send advance warning to have all other traffic removed from roads between 9am and 10am etc.

Risk: Engineer cannot drive with thick gloves.

Action: Remove think gloves upon entering van.

You get the picture??? Happy days.

Blimey I wish we could sell out. Fat chance there is of that.

Retirement????? what's that? They will carry me and DH out of here in a box.

Respect gillybob!

Hope you added all that to the cost of the job gilly

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

I think there will be a lot of GN's who will 'think' I am anti union. Actually I am not.

I do think that the the reason for that was infact the Laws introduced by Margaret Thatcher which gave credability to the democracy of the union member to have his/her opinion heard. This was most certainly not what was happening and why so many people refer to this country as 'The basket Case Of Europe' prior to Margaret Thatcher being PM and the early days of her leadership.

The thread has developed, as it does, into discussing 'todays' union activity. That for me would be another day a another dollar. I have made my comments re the union activity, prior to, Margart Thatcher and the early days of her office when the 'union leaders might' was so destructive both to the private sector and the public sector workforce, such as miners, steel workers etc. This period of time caused job losses in all geographical areas of the country and included many variences of employment.

I will remind people MORE PITS WERE CLOSED IN THE 1960's THAN IN THE 80's. Where does the then PM Harold Wilson ever get such hostility for his deeds to the closures of pits and the ruination of communities.

As Neil Kinnock is reported to have said , a point I believe reiterated by the odd Labour MP yesterday in Parliament at Thatchers Tribute, "I don't blame her(Thatcher) for taking advantage of the circumstance". "I'm much more inclined to blame SCARGILL for the appalling defeat HE inflicted on the coal mining communities of Britain".

I think what I am saying is the likes of Red Robbo and Scargill were so highly in control of Britain they lost any credability from the ordinary working classes, albeit outside the mining areas and steel works etc.,. Now I think there is more respect for unions, although I suspect that many of us are worried about the same thing happening all over again, soon. Union Leaders talking of violence and 'war chests' are not in my opinion doing the union reputation much good.

Take for example the Birmingham Council having to pay and back date wages to women who are/were classed as doing a similar/same job. That is good union diplomacy and cannot be argued with. I remember a woman where I worked being sacked by a manager because she has not rang in sick, she had fallen in her home, lived alone and had slipped a disc and could not possibly get to the phone. Her daughter found her the next day. The union quite rightly faught her case, I know it should never have been executed in the first place. However that is good union work and without it I totally accept we would all be the worse for it.

So I am not anti union. I am however worried the likes of Red Robbo have returned and I think this summer may make me rethink my stance all over again, how sad is that.

bluebell I think the boot is on the other foot. You chose to read my post like that. I am quite sure your daughter knew what the situation was and knew she had nothing to worry about. Most women who are on maternity leave are aware of the situation let alone one who worked in HR. Come of it, we don't need the artifical indignation!

Well said POGS the voice of reason. I too have said things on both sides of some arguments but it seems that there are people on GN who only remember the ones they feel are the opposite of their own beliefs.

It is such a shame people have to take sides rather than being objective.

Does dislike of Bob Crow mean that all unions are to be demolished?
I well remember the Herlald of Free Enterprise - what an ironic name - when management had ignored the frequent warnings of captains and engineers that some system was required to show the bridge when the bow doors were shut. They were ignored, with a hideous loss of life.

Somebody remind me - how many prosecutions have there been for corporate manslaughter? How many individuals were punished for the Paddington and other rail crashes?

I think that working on motorways/roads has a high accident/fatality rate. I only know that because my son was going to work on them but ended up working on train tracks instead. I was quite worried at the time until I realised it was so much safer than road work, because the whole track is closed down. So many idiots on roads ignore any warning signs.