Thatcher has died

*Sel" That's funny. The reporter on the London News this evening said that Trafalgar Square was full.

Hmmmm. so that makes me what Eloethan? I have photos on my phone so could upload if you doubt what I said. This was about 8.30-9pm. Maybe the Millwall fans arrived later.

Eloethan

The media is always being chastised for it's 'prolific stretching of the truth' on GN.

Have you ever watched 'Drop the Dead Donkey'. It shows you in a comedic way how they position camera angles, pay people to do what they say, use shots to try and make it look like hoards of people are gathering.

The best ever was during, I think it was a Palestinian fight. They showed a picture of some men carrying a stretcher with a man on it, who looked as if he was dead. They hit the stretcher on the open door of the ambulance and he fell off. He didn't lie there, he got up and rubbed his head and they all walked off!. That's the 'Drop The Dead Donkey' tactic. Look out for it, you might see it, you see the same face but from different angles, it's an illusion trick.

Quite interesting I checked the BBC news online and exactly what you've said is true POGS about camera angles. The reporter actually mentioned hordes of people. Laughable. There weren't. Hoards of police for sure. Last Saturday there was a pillow fight in Trafalgar Square - there were more people bashing pillows than bashing Margaret Thatcher.

Sel

It was a good ploy used during the 'camp' outside St Pauls. When you saw the aerial view of the area covered it was pretty small. It stood out a mile though how angle shots came into play.

If the end product didn't have such a potential to cause trouble it would be laughable.

POGS yes, I saw the reality of that too. I do feel sorry for the police standing around. Tourists were bemused tonight so maybe it provides a bit of entertainment.

I'm only going by what I saw on the TV. But possibly you're right - that's what they did in Iraq didn't they - when the Sadam Hussein statue was pulled down.

It happens all the time. When the city I live near was found to be the worst place to live in the UK by a certain Channel 4 programme a few years ago they chose the worst places to record and used shots and camera angles that made the city look run down and uncared for. They didn't go to any of the numerous places that show the city at it's best. Also they showed interviews with people who were negative about the city but didn't show any of the positive interviews. They also described a lovely river as 'dirty brown'. I don't deny it's brown. It runs over a clay and sand bed. What colour would it be? But it's definitely not dirty. If it was then it wouldn't be full of fish.

There is no doubt that like all cities this city has some run down and unloved areas but the vast majority of the city is thriving. It has a full range of shops from department stores to small independents, several cinemas, two theatres, a range of free museums, an art gallery that recently had a Da Vinci exhibition, a concert hall, two rugby teams and a (fingers crossed) soon to be premier league football team. It is 30 minutes from the coast with beautiful sandy beaches and 60 minutes from the Yorkshire Dales and the North Yorkshire Moors. Unemployment is a problem but that's not unusual in the UK atm.

I know this sounds like an advert for the city but it goes to show that the Channel 4 programme showed what it wanted to show in order to prove it's point and that is exactly what the media do when reporting.

I liked the centre of Hull and its civic buildings but it is always portrayed as a ghastly town. It has a good university. It is true that unemployment is very high, though.
Which idiot MP was it who got himself photoshopped into a photo? It just isn't true that the camera, whether still or video, never lies.

The media are very good at picking and choosing aren't they VQ ?

Greatnan I'd also stupidly thought that Hull and its surroundings were dreadful - only from what I've seen on TV, because I've never been there.

But a friend of mine visits that area of the country quite frequently and told me that, like any town, some of it is lovely and some isn't, and also there are some very nice places nearby.

A few months ago I saw a documentary about a large housing estate in Blackburn where it appeared all the families were dysfunctional. People living there wrote to the paper afterwards, very offended that the place where they lived had been depicted in such a way and refuting the idea that all its residents were anti-social layabouts.

I'm glad we all agree on the media now. I hope we can bear that in mind in future when we quote newspapers.

I thought this piece was both entertaining and thought provoking
www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/14/thatcher-is-dead-but-who-reinvented-her-life?INTCMP=SRCH

What's the betting that Tony Blair is taking notes of all that is going on as he plans for the future?

Moved

It's not just the papers it's the 'spin' of television too. I know that's what you meant, not being pedantic.

It is always nice to see, listen and watch for yourself but naturally that is impossible to do most of the time. It's always good to wacth Parliament live, it is quite an eye opener and I do find I could pick a hole in an awful lot of politicians claims whilst they are talking in the media. A lot of them could be done for 'Trades Discriptions'

I need to check with the S.O. who comes from a mining area but I know he told me of something that was put on the news that was altered in some wayduring the miners strike; I'll ask him when he gets back. There is also the usual statment when there's a protest march of any kind that there was a 'disappointing turnout of 'x' number of people' [usually in the thousands] which makes it sound as if not many people turned up [I know that for a fact because that did happen to marches that I was on].

Lilygran, thanks for the link, I did enjoy it (but then got seduced into reading lots of other items, including the one with the video of the base jumper whose frame broke!)

There was a programme on last night that actually made me feel almost warm towards Thatcher, when it detailed how much she was hated by the Tory Grandees who thought they had a divine right to run the Party and the country. It was a pity she had to have some of them in the Cabinet and they appear to have taken over again. Surely there must have been some women around who would be at least as good? (Although Blair's Babes proved to be a huge disappointment in many cases.) Perhaps the next generation of women MPs will have Thatcher's determination and courage but with a different set of values.

Greatnan This is a classic example of how the British class system was (probably still is) a powerful force. The Tory party was full of snobs and Margaret Roberts was a grocer's daughter made good but still firmly lower middle class. Even having an Oxbridge degree didn't help because it wasn't Law, PPE, Greats, History, etc. but chemistry (like Boots dontchaknow). I don't think she would ever have made it to be PM without Dennis Thatcher's money and contacts – a point made quite subtly in the recent Meryl Streep film The Iron Lady.

Wasn't there reportedly about 24 women MP's out of something like 635,, something similar, when she became an MP or indeed PM.

There was of course in opposition Barbera Castle and it would be interesting to know what people think of Barbera Castles vision 'In Place of Strife' I think it's known as.

It was if I remember correctly her vision for the democratising of the unions which Margaret Thactcher did and in my opinion changed my opinion for the good of union activity, which had brought the country to it's knees. That's why I say Margaret Thatcher could be loosely connected to saving the unions rather than the anger which accuses her of ruining them. That's a thought I know will be severely challenged but it is not meant as a challenge so please don't take it that way anybody.

I wish Barbara Castle had been this country's first woman Prime Minister. That would have been something worth celebrating.

Absent

I don't think it was Dennis Thatchers money at all. It has been widely accepted that the Tory party did not want her at all, at first. The old boys network or male domination of politics was against her. That was what it was like then as we all know, whatever the colour of your politics.

She earned her right to stand as a candidate for PM and after she went through the process it was obvious she was the person for the job. It would have taken a hell of a lot of guts and determination to go through it and to win was a landmark for women.

You very often hear female MP's show respect for that fact and over the last few days it has been quite noticeable a lot of women have said so.

I think the likes of Barbera Castle and Shirley Williams would be annoyed at the thought if it was said about them and I would agree. It wouldn't be said of them though would it. These are strong women who lead the way for the empowerment of women and I for one herald them actually.

She couldn't have done any worse than the weak Harold Wilson and Jim Callaghan who after the disasterous governance of the stupid man Ted Heath carried on with the spending spree that brought the country down and the IMF were called in to bail us out in 1976. Might I add a fact that doesn't get reported as often as it should.

Barbara Castle would have supported the railways and not the road transport lobby and this country wouldn't have been full of lorries .

Yes it would. Is there a country in the western world without lorries on the same scale as here?. It 's just we are a small country and it appears we have more than our fair share. France and Germany for example cannot be compared to England as the size of those countries compared to us is so vast.

A lot of the lorries on our roads are from the EU anyway because of EU legislation which can sometimes play against our road hauliers.

I liked Harold Wilson. There were things he did I didn't agree with and he had his critics but who doesn't?

He was very dedicated to improving the education of the general population in order to push the country forward in science and technology. He spent more on education and got the Open University going.

He reduced the gap between rich and poor - increased higher rates of tax. Although the Prices & Incomes Policy didn't work, it was something that was also unsuccessfully tried in several other countries at the time. He raised pensions, tripled the widow's pension and introduced redundancy payments.

He built 1.3 million council houses between l965 and 1970. He introduced the Option Mortgage Scheme for people on low incomes. He brought in protection for tenants and gave grants for house renovation.

The Race Relations Act, the Equal Pay Act and de-criminalisation of homosexuality were all brought in during the periods in which he was prime minister.

He wouldn't let us be dragged into the Vietnam War, which put him in the bad books of the USA - they're not the best people to antagonise.

I don't think that's a bad record.

He was also very bright and had a great sense of humour.

Liked Barbara Castle too - she would have been a great prime minister.