Idiotic thickos. Yes, another thread!!!

I really don't think the people who were out on the streets making a nuisance of themselves can be called protesters or demonstrators. The only reasonable things to protest about would be this absurd pantomime of a funeral and the expensive chat show in the Commons and Lords this week. As far as I can see, they were just making whoopee, some of it in a reckless and dangerous manner and all of it in a disruptive way. This was neither legitimate protest nor sensible political debate and behaviour of this sort undermines both these things.

*nightowl"

*j08" said "I think it's mostly the antis who come on boards like this to express their dislike."

I merely replied "I don't get your reasoning. Surely, those who are great admirers of Mrs T - and you say there are many - would be just as keen to voice their admiration, as you have done?"

To which j08 replied "the haters are noisier."

I don't see my remark as being particularly contentious. I was merely challenging the assertion that those putting forward certain opinions on Gransnet were unrepresentative of the mainstream - everybody, whatever their opinion, can express their views on GN. On what evidence can j08 assert "the haters are noisier".

I would not characterise myself as a "hater". I do not condone spiteful "celebrations" of Mrs T's death - I think they are despicable. However, I do challenge the establishment view - as expressed by David Cameron and as implied by the lavish and unprecedented preparations for Mrs T's funeral, that Mrs T was perceived by the whole of the UK as a force for good.

Thank you, jingle, but I think Sel is usually pretty good at speaking for herself!

I think I posted on another thread - or it could have been this one - that any pro-Mrs Ts among posting Gransnet members may well not be prepared to face the negative responses they'd get if they ventured to put their views forward. Let's not pretend that wouldn't happen.

Eloethan If you read the link Ana posted you will see that more people seem to think she was a good PM than think she wasn't. That is not reflected in the posts on GN.

I do think that generally more people are against things on GN than for but I am sure someone will see things differently. I noticed in the past that older people tend to moan more than younger but had hoped my own generation would be different and less blinkered. It seems to me that a lot of Gners do tend to notice the negatives rather than the positives and I am not just talking about Mrs T.

Mrs Thatcher was clearly a leader who was either loved or hated with very little "grey" in the middle.

I can respect her as a strong leader who (faced with the climate she inherited) did what needed to be done to curb the unions etc. She was also the right leader to deal with the Falkland Island issue at the time and refused to give in to the bullying tactics of Argentina. On the other hand Mrs Thatcher was hated here in the NE for her dealings with the Miners (although I think it became a personal battle of wills between her and Arthur Scargill) and for the selling off of industry relied on by generations of manual workers.

Having said all that scrub my opening sentence which proves that there quite clearly some "grey" areas.

Incidentally at the height of Mrs T's power I think its important to add that I was a paid up member of the Labour Party.

gilly it is nice to see someone recognise that there were grey areas. I don't believe people are all bad or all good. I find it hard to believe that anyone would set out to destroy any part of our economy. Perhaps the results of some of Mrs T's actions were not good but I can't accept that she did them out of some kind of spite. There are so many things we cannot ever know, eg would we have been better off if there had been no privatisation? How can we ever know the answer to that? People will stand on either side of the argument but we will never know unless we go back and privatise them again.

I don't believe any politician is motivated by spite, but by the desire for power and in my most cynical mode, by a desire to make money for certain groups of people, including themselves. Some probably really believe they are doing their best for the country.
Movedalot - does 'blinkered' mean 'not agreeing with me'? Are you ever blinkered or does it only apply to other people?

Is it wrong to be against things, then? I am against poverty, disease, FGM, abuse of the vulnerable, drink driving........does that make me 'blinkered'?

I heard that some joker has suggested that Thatcher's funeral should be privatised to take the burden from the tax payer. Good idea!

I think Baroness Thatcher was an amazing woman and Prime Minister. She did what was needed at the time and got the country out of a terrible mess left the the previous Government. I read somewhere that Harold Wilson closed 93 mines to her 22 mines, but no one is blaming him for that!! In fact a lot things being blamed on her were nothing to do with her. I think the Queen is doing the right thing attending the funeral. Baroness Thatcher was a formidable PM.

I'm not getting into a shouting match with anyone on this post. I've just stated my opinion and I think there are far more people like me in the country than people seem to think. Perhaps we just don't make a lot of noise about it.

So, I expect to be 'shot down' but I don't care. Do your worst!

Oh! I have just twittered on about this on another thread.

Blimey how does being a formidable PM constitute a state funeral? It is absolute nonsense.

janthea - you will not be 'shot down'. You are entitled to your opinion even if some of us don't agree with it. Nobody is being personally attacked, we are just having a debate.

Agree with Greatnan. We are all absolutely entitled to our own opinions on this site Janthea.

Indeed. Somebody said she wanted to be cremated, but they'd run out of coal (:

I feel there is a type of sheep mentally going on here. Its as we say these issues after the horse has bolted I also think before following suit and attacking a person when dead what does it say about you as a person? I did not agree with all of Mrs Thatchers policies but would not want to bad mouth or celebrate a persons death.
There are plenty of current issues with our current joint government that need addressing. I wish the general public would be coming more brought together on these current issues rather than issues irrelevant to todays society and what is happening now.

Exactly the point I have been trying to make on the various Mrs T threads, although I will admit to not being very articulate annerichardson.

The issue is entirely relevant anne My taxes are contributing towards her funeral, and the parliamentary recall to sing her praises. I have no wish to bad mouth the dead but I am entitled to bad mouth her policies, and the resulting fallout from them, which we are still experiencing today

WE have argued exhaustively, I think, but new posters probably have not read through all the posts. I don't intend to rehash all the arguments - I would simply say that when a person puts themselves up for public office it is reasonable for others to comment on what they have done in that office, whether they are alive or dead.
All it says about us is that we can exercise our right to post our views without censorship, whatever they may be.

annerichardson Wise words.

janthea and Annerichardson ,

x

Greatnan why is it that you always put the worst possible interpretation on everything I post?

"Movedalot - does 'blinkered' mean 'not agreeing with me'? Are you ever blinkered or does it only apply to other people?"

You know full well that I am talking about only seeing one point of view and not admitting that there is any other view. I just don't understand why you do this all the time. What on earth motivates you?

I have used the word 'balanced' but you fail to notice that.

Greatnan Wed 10-Apr-13 14:36:17
Thank you, jingle, but I think Sel is usually pretty good at speaking for herself!

A childish and unnecessary comment. Just being unpleasant.

annerichardson

I do not agree with the riots and parties or celebrate her death.

The threads were discussing Thatchers legacy as a very divisive PM. I do not see that as "attacking her". It is a fact that even after 23yrs out of power she is still hated in so many parts of the country for her policies and her arrogant and condescending manner. I do not think there has been a PM in the last 113 yrs who has so thoroughly divided opinion in this county and caused so much ill feeling.

If we look at the reputation of other PMs and discussed their effects on the country we should always be objective. If they were really controversial and unpopular as PMs then we should not say otherwise.

I wonder what you you regard as bad mouthing.

How would you suggest we should discuss Hitler or Pol Pot? Should we be "nice" about them just because they are dead or should we tell the truth about how much harm they did and how they affected others.
Do you think it is bad mouthing to tell the truth about them?

I question the implication that Gransnetters who support Mrs T are somehow prevented from expressing that support.

If you look through the postings on this thread, virtually all of the personal comments come from those supporting Mrs T:

People have been described as "blinkered" or "haters" or of having: a "sheep mentality" or "delusions of grandeur"

A perfectly civilised debate has been described as a "shouting match" where people are "shot down" (who's been shouting and who has been shot down - people have just expressed their opinions and that, surely, is the point of having discussion forums)

The comment was made "what does it say about you as a person?" (the implication being that those who criticise Mrs T's legacy are somehow morally lacking)

Some people here are expressing their views as to why Mrs T was a divisive figure whose policies have had long lasting negative repercussions. Others feel that she was an inspirational figure whose policies benefited the UK. Both sides are entitled to their opinions.