Ed Balls and the State Pension

bluebell

I don't think the government could get any of the higher rate tax relief back from people who have been allowed it in the past.
Also putting the retirement age up suddenly could cause problems as people plan on getting their state pension at some point.
Several people were made redundant where I worked at about 55 and never managed to find work again.
They got their occupational pensions paid immediately and many of them are now about 63.
I am just wondering what employer would want to employ these people who have not worked for 8 years.

Frank

The retirement age is already rising and if that was what EB meant he wouldn't have talked about capping pensions. Capping a pension means stopping it rising or stopping it rising for some people.

He is on a softening offensive. Make vague remarks like this now, repeat them casually a number of times, putting something vague but noble in the manifesto about all those most fortunate in society making a contribution etc etc and then, once they are in power in comes this measure.

Cynic? Me?

Re tax relief, I don't for one minute think it could or should be retrospective and as for putting up the pension age, they could carry on doing what has already been happening. I'm not saying the latter should happen but it would be part of the solution. I do think the former should happen however - there have been some changes, they should continue.

Flick I'm not being difficult but where did he actually say the words 'capping the state pension'?

I couldn't find where he had used those words or even implied them either. The Daily Telegraph reported it like that, but I don't think that is quite the same thing, is it?

More explanation here:
www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jun/09/labour-ed-balls-curb-welfare-spending

I know some of you will think ' she would say that wouldn't she' but there really is an enormous difference between capping the state pension and capping the pension budget. It's obvious that most of the press will wilfully put the worst spin on whatever EB says. And he's right to say that the overall budget should be looked at including the amount spent on pensions.

bluebell

With regard to the overall budget being looked at including the amount spent on pensions in my case the government will not be spending any money on my state pension.
I was paying 40% tax for over 20 years and the maximum insurance contributions so the government is really hanging on to my savings and will hopefully repay some in the future.
What the government needs to do is cut pensions and allowances for people who have paid little or no tax and National Insurance Contributions and increase the state pension for people in my position.

Frank

It is what the first post on this thread said and I considered how this could be done.

If you are going to cap pension expenditure, there are a number of ways you can do it, cut annual increases in the pension to a rate below the rate of inflation, but this has already been done when it was decided to base the annual increase in pensions on the Consumer price index rather than on the retail price index. Pension age could be raised, but again this is already being done.

All that is left is to cut all the bells and whistles, winter fuel payment, free TV licences, prescriptions, bus passes etc, which would be my preference. Then add a substantial sum to the minimum income guarantee and this would cascade upwards through the Pension Credit system to assist all pensioners on modest incomes who would then paying for things that were previously free, or a cap is put on the state pension for those with reasonable occupational/private pensions.

Can anyone think of any other way to do it, bar the Dignitas/euthanasia route?

There should be no minimum income guarantee.
People should only get what they have paid for.

Frank

That is incredibly thoughtless, Frank. Many women have not paid full contributions and because of marital breakdown, often through no fault of their own, have been left without full pensions which are brought up to minimum income by pension credits. You would presumably have them out on the streets. Or possibly euthanased.

Anno - save your breath - some of us were trying to have a sensible discussion on a really serious issue and then one poster brings it to a level that it's impossible to engage with in any meaningful way at all. I just can't even begin to address the points raised by Frank - it's not worth the effort.

But they are already increasing the pension age and there is a limit to how far it can be increased before so many people in the just short of pensionable age group are either unemployed because of reduced efficiency or have medical conditions that make work almost impossible that the savings on pension is matched by payment of unemployment and sickness benefits.

The amount of money that would be saved by taking away higher rate tax relief, like the plan to withdraw winter fuel allowance from higher rate tax payers, makes a good headline but actually will save very little money,

Bluebell I think the policy on GN is to attack the post not the poster.

You're right, bluebell. I don't usually rise to the bait but that was just so crass...!

Bishop of London backs up Ed Balls in today's Telegraph

Thanks for posting that Jane it's always interesting to see how The Church like to make pronouncements on politics, especially those sitting pretty in senior positions.

Aka - you would know all about attacking the post and not the poster !! I've clearly learnt from the best!! Flick - the point I was making about tax relief was that on pension contributions during working life and it would save an enormous amount goes off to find link

Frank

I have just read your post. I am appalled. Many people have chequered employment histories. Ill health, unemployment and many older women paid the married woman's stamp and were kept out of the workplace for years by child rearing responsibilities. Some could afford to pay voluntary contributions but most could not. These factors all meant that they have retired on only basic pension or less.

I am proud to live in a country that has a welfare system that guarantees older people an adequate, but not generous income, so that they do not need to die premature deaths in misery from hunger, cold and homelessness.

Yes, I know Anno has already said this but it does deserve reiterating. After retirement I worked as a home visitor with elderly people and saw and understood the factors that led to people retiring on low pensions. I did meet people who were feckless and disorganised all their lives and their low income in retirement reflected this, but these were few and far between compared with those who had faced many vicissitudes in life and after a lifetime of struggle could at least in retirement be guaranteed a sure and adequate income.

Tax relief on pension contributions for higher rate tax payers - if this were abolished and everyone got tax relief at the basic rate, the lowest figure I could find would be £2.23bn annual saving. Some estimates were much higher. There is now a maximum of £50000 pa that you can pay into a pension fund and get tax relief on . This is going down to £40000 in 14/15 - but that's still a lot of tax relief. Of course any such savings wouldn't show up in the welfare budget but in the Treasury.

Don't feed the trolls! (Is Liz Jones moonlighting on Gransnet?

My state retirement pension is taxable in France - I wonder what the UK government would do about that? They already tax my two government service pensions at source.

Aka - I would like to see a reasoned argument as to why Church ( or any church) leaders should not comment on political issues

I am happy for anyone to comment on political issues - as long as the law is not based on the religious beliefs of a minority of people. (Which is all that secularists ask).

bluebell

I don't think many people could afford to put £40,000 a year in to their pension.

Frank

Greatnan

I will be paying 20% tax on my state pension as my occupational pension already uses my tax allowances.
In fact I am already paying more tax on my occupational pension than what I will get in state pension so I will in effect get no state pension.

Frank