Snowden to head for Ecuador - hero or villain

Ironic too that the US is carrying on bullying (both at countries that might give refuge and at him by withdrawing his passport i.e. right to travel) instead of holding their hands up and saying "we're not bullies, look!"
These two lists show the % incarceration rate in different countries. And the total number of prisoners in different countries.
US heads both lists.
And they wonder why the rest of us don't think they have the finest justice system in the world.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate

www.prisonstudies.org/info/worldbrief/wpb_stats.php?area=all&category=wb_poptotal

Very interesting lists. Ver interesting.

I understand that Putin won't allow him to stay in Russia, unless he shuts up. Putin obviously wouldn't welcome the inevitable media circus.

I would love to be a fly on the wall in Putin's office. On the surface, his statement about Snowden only being given asylum if he stops his anti-American activities sounds supportive of the USA, but I bet there's a deal at the back of it. He would sell his grandmother if it suited him!

he looks fed up with it all

I admire Snowden greatly. I'm disgusted by the hypocrisy of the countries who are grateful for his revelations but won't offer him asylum - US bullying obviously. If our own government had any cojones, they would offer him asylum and a job. It has been suggested that he be awarded the Nobel Peace Prize - I'll drink to that, and to him. L'chaim, Edward!

What I don't understand, is why he came out with all the stuff while in a country which could well have extradited him to the USA. Why didn't he go somewhere with no extradition first?

I can't say I blame him for avoiding going back to the USA - even at the best of times I would be deeply afraid of US law.

But I would never have done it - I take matters of official secrecy seriously.

He wouldn't have had access to the right computer systems somewhere else.

Please expand bags - I thought he had left with a bag of stuff on hard disk. Though why to HK escapes me. Why not go straight to Ecuador and claim asylumn?
joan is that an inviolable rule or is there a role for whistelblowing when powerful public bodies are misbehaving?

Well, I'm surmising that the hard disks would not be much use without a very powerful computer system, by which I don't mean a single computer, but a whole network of computers. I've no doubt the US security system depends on a large computer network. Other countries will have similar setups but he mightn't have access to them for some time, if ever.

Also, much of what he has on hard disk will be encrypted, only available to certain people, or levels of programmers. I very much doubt he can just connect his disks to any computer and they be read straight off.

Since he left, they'll be trying to block stuff he had access to as well.

Re Hong Kong, maybe it was the first plane he could get a flight on out of the US. He may have been in a hurry once he was sussed.

Today's Guardian article about his whistleblowing.

Sensible article, Bags. Of course he isn't a spy, he's a whistle-blower with a conscience. Why doesn't the USA just offer him an amnesty, let him go home and then they can explain to the world why he had to take a stand? Leaving him out in the cold is just getting more embarrassing for them by the day.

If/when the next terrorist bombs go off (God forbid), who will the world look to for help? Oh yes. America.

Jess asked: joan is that an inviolable rule or is there a role for whistle blowing when powerful public bodies are misbehaving?

I guess it was my own rule - giving away secrets of the County Court or Social Security would have hurt people by violating their privacy, not to mention hurting me by landing me in prison!!

If I thought the departments I worked for were misbehaving I would probably have gone to my union and asked to see the union lawyer. But of course, those departments were chicken feed compared with the CIA.

He was hardly going to hand the documents straight over to al-Qaeda was he?! That would have put him straight in line with the electric chair! Does anyone really think he would have been that stupid?

http://www.sentencingproject.org/template/page.cfm?id=122

How has America helped to protect Britain from terrorists? Many Americans funded the IRA until they themselves were subject to terrorism. America will look after America, whilst playing the role of world policeman and all-round good guy.
This reminds me of Mossad's technique for silencing people.
I don't want my grandchildren to grow up in a police state.

There is an obvious answer to the last line of your post Greatnan. But I can't put it into words.

America does share info with our security people.

Terrorist bombs go off every day, jings. Maybe not in the UK, but somewhere they do.

Interesting article by Derek van der Ven: What Snowden has shown us

Iam64 I agree with your views and am horrified at how easily we (UK governments of whatever political colour), are so easily persuaded to follow in America's footsteps.

We have a bullying, authoritarian power forcing other countries to do as they're told, or else. Snowdon has done us a favour.

They're probably monitoring Gransnet as we speak.

This article's clear and balanced overview is the best I've read on the Snowden issue.

Noodles, your comment about "them" monitoring gransnet made me laugh, and before my 2nd coffee of the day as well. Because we share a language with the USA doesn't mean we share a culture, and the differences between the USA and Europe shouldn't be minimised. We've had our share of wars in Europe, with people directly affected over long periods. 9/ll was unspeakable, but the reaction to it seems to have exacerbated the underlying problems. It's interesting that it took 9/ll to get Americans to think abut the impact of terrorism, and to stop funding the IRA. A good idea from Iam, for the USA to treat Snowden as the whistle blower he is, and give him a platform for his views. I'd feel safer if we had a government that had integrity about international affairs and didn't simply follow the US in whatever dangerous direction it decides to take

Another good article on the Snowden affair.

For another take, see thread on Terrorism - the new catch all