Energy companies' stranglehold

Good point, well made although TBH I don't really see Milliband as PM.

As Centrica is part of/holding company for British Gas (sorry, not sure which) and employs thousands of people in office based roles, it would be something to worry about.

You are probably all aware that Centrica is also Dynorod, Dynoplumb and Dynolock. Although these operate as a franchise, the overall power is Centrica.

(Muppet disclaimer applies)

I don't really care who is prime minster but I'd like a party that supports the majority of people in this country rather than multinational corporations and the seriously wealthy.

I don't think it is going unnoticed that this causing a good old row.

I am very concerned that this is a case of heart over head and a rush to the 70's style of government. We can all agree we hold different views on that as a subject.

I saw Caroline Flint (Shadow Energy Minister) being interviewed this morning on BBC News. The question went something like this. "What if there was a war or something similar and gas and oil prices rose by say 60%, how could the energy companies maintain a freeze". FLINT "Well they buy their stock months in advance so it won't really matter". something similar to this but you get the gist. Sorry but if there is a freeze does that not mean the energy companies probably wouldn't have the finances to buy supplies for use months down the line. Also when it is pointed out that when the cost on the day of gas and oil etc. drops we don't get any reduction has been supplied by her reply. Or am I being naïve?

Now don't get me wrong, I accept that we do probably pay too high a price for our energy. I would have listened a little more favourably to Labour if it mentioned that we pay tariffs here there and every where for things beyond the control of the energy companies and they have to pass them on to the consumer, the tariffs have been put on our bills by government past and present. I thought it was difficult to listen to Ed Miliband giving this eureka moment now when he had the opportunity to have put this into place when he was in government and in the energy department.

There was another interview with the CEO of one of the new small energy providers. He was asked how much does his company have to pay to drill for, invest in etc., to provide the energy. He said "Well we are just starting out in the energy market so nothing really". To me it's like BT doing all the investment and donkey work for another phone company to rent lines and undercut BT's prices . Fine but don't bite the hand that feeds you.

A lot more to come on this subject and I am watching with interest. It is a very popular sentiment with the public but it is what could happen a few years down the line and how it will be viewed by business will be interesting and no doubt will be mulled over for weeks.

There's a tendency to refer to the 70's as if it was a time of terrible suffering for most people. Yes, there were problems - inflation, industrial action, etc., but that's not the whole story.

My husband was a nurse in the 70's (nurses then were even worse paid than they are now) and I was at home for a couple of years looking after our daughter - and even after that only worked part time. Apart from Child Benefit, we received no additional welfare payments. Although we had very little spare cash, we were reasonably housed, ate two good meals a day, and didn't have to worry about putting the heating on, having a bath or doing the washing. Compare that to nowadays where even two people on reasonable incomes struggle to provide decent housing, good food and a warm home for their families.

The websites positivemoney.co.uk or freecriticalthinking.org was set up by people who wanted to examine the way our economy runs and to provide a different perspective.

I quite like Ed M, but this one is not practical. Can any explain to me how it would work?
Has he not heard that the electricity market has been privatised?
Centrica not a threat - they would just sell their shares off.

Interesting on Daily Politics today. I thought the prog gave both sides of the argument a shot.

I was interested in Labours Stephen Twiggs response. Basically he came over as a bit of a numpty. If Labour want to be taken seriously on the economy I think they need to be foot sure of what they say and do, this is not coming across to me at the moment.

Chuka Umuna was asked yesterday why a 20 months freeze. His reply suggested Labour wanted that time to get rid of OFGEM and sort out the regulatory body to follow???? So they don't know factually how it would work and I find that astonishing. I am not saying it can't work but you have to tell us how and why in a plausible manner, not just to win votes which months down the line will be a cock-up or another U turn.

It's a sympathy vote at the moment and I am really trying hard to find more points in favour of than against but I am struggling and it get's worse hour after hour at the moment. It was interesting to point out that Tesco make a higher profit on their return on investment than Centrica. It was also interesting to know that only Finland, France and Greece have lower combined energy prices than the UK.

As I said before this will run for days.

So far we have had the Lib Dems and the Labour telling us if we vote for them that we will live in a land flowing with milk and honey. A biblical phrase which shows politicians hven't changed down the centuries and will tell you anything to get your vote. Next week from Manchester the Conservatives will give you their offering to gain your confidence and your vote. It's just to keep a bunch of people in power who have been nothing in their lives, but school kids. It is hard to find any of them that has had a proper job, Its from Uni to research, the local council and onto MP with no idea of the price of a Tuppeny bun.

Phoenix When British Gas split up about 20 years ago Centrica was the name given to the company that took over the UK gas distribution business. It was, however allowed to use the brand name 'British Gas' because that was the name customers were most familiar with.

It is an entirely independent company owned only by its shareholders.
It can therefore move the company registration and HQ to any country it chooses.

Over the last few years it has been using the expertise in running its domestic gas servicing to build itself up as a one stop home service company, which is why it bought Dynorod originally and is now using 'Dyno' as an affix for a range of other home services. Yes, they are franchises but 'sold' with security of knowing that British Gas is the franchisor and backstop.

Watched the chit chat all day on this and I am now leaning to more negative thinking on this one than positive all the more.

I hope it does not, as some are saying, seriously put our modest recovery back into decline. There are a lot of credible voices speaking out over this one in a disparaging way.

Rather than freezing fuel prices across the board it would make far more sense to cut the price that people with gas and electricity meters have to pay. The people who have to use these are, by definition, among the poorest members of society yet they are faced with higher bills. I remember the days when we had to have a meter and the rate it swallowed money was frightening then. Cold weather meant having the money available to charge it NOW. Everyone else can even out their payments through the year.

Pogs - put our modest recovery back into decline? Sounds like George id getting his media chums to stock up an alibi if the next set of figures aren't good enough!

Article by Douglas Carswell about the Milliband idea.

Was hoping that it would be an informative one bags and not just a plug for shale gas extraction. Have to agree though, much as it pains me to do so, that the criticism of economic illiteracy is a fair one.
Thanks Flicketyb for clarifying - but the only way they could "get out of the UK" is for the board to recommend to shareholders that they just stop selling energy in the UK. The place that the company is registered maketh not a hap'orth of difference does it.
Labour would have to pass legislation changing the nature of regulation in the UK and then put such a regulatory team in place. Until this is done they can't freeze the prices charged. So the replacement of ofgem would surely have to come after the legislation.... confused, yes, I still am.

Well, it isn't just a plug for shale gas if the comment about economic illiteracy is fair. Actually, I didn't see the shale gas plug. I suppose I was concentrating on the fair criticism of the Milliband's idea.

A suggestion I've seen elsewhere that, the suggester (sorry, can't remember who) claims would reduce costs for domestic users (and industry, lresumably?) is abolishing the subsidies to 'green' energy which, Suggester said, make up 10% of energy bills. Thoughts, anyone?

I'm all for plugging shale gas anyhow. CO2 emissions have fallen dramatically in the US because of their use of shale gas. It emits far less than oil and coal so it looks like the way to go until 'green' energy gets more efficient and less obtrusivethan wind factories are.

presumably, even

Here is an article to balance the one from the Telegraph.
www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/09/miliband-right-stand-energy-companies-blackmail
Interesting comment underneath that France and Belgium have had freeze / price control for some years without the lights going out.

Not an Ed Milliband fan, but if he was trying to get himself noticed, stir up the energy companies and get people talking then he has at least accomplished that. And yes, other countries' governments do have a measure of control over energy prices so not that crazy a suggestion.

Aka they tried it in California, people used more, supply dried up, power cuts and black outs.

Nothing to do with Enron creating an artificial shortage then, Sel?

Good point Mamie Not the whole reason though and their activities were illegal.

Where can I buy a cheap generator?

Fit a dynamo to your exercise bike?

sel I was in California at the time. The energy companies were doing "planned" shutdowns in such a way that power cuts were inevitable.
mamie again more of an opinion piece than logical analysis. Yes it we would be nice if we had more engineering expertise in this country but what did the previous Labour administration do to remedy this?
Seem to remember Cameron having a "bright idea" about energy prices. This involved making all the companies offer customers the cheapest tariff. Labour obviously not got the monopoly on economic naivety.
And has this happened or has it been quietly forgotten once the civil servants pointed out that it did not make sense?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/consumertips/household-bills/9616124/Millions-to-see-energy-bills-fall-after-David-Cameron-promises-tariff-reform.html
The thing that really pees me off is that fuel poverty is not going to be solved by controlling prices when so many people live in dismally energy-inefficient property.

I agree Jess. I posted the New Statesman article purely as a counter to the Telegraph polemic.
We need to hear how this can be done in clear and measured detail. I am not a great fan of Ed Miliband either, but I wouldn't accuse him of being economically illiterate or of being ignorant of how the energy companies work.
I certainly wouldn't trust the energy companies to give a measured response.
Interesting that here, we have no choice of electricity supplier, but our prices are lower than the UK.