Nelson Mandela

I feel so privileged to have been part of the struggle against apartheid here in the UK - it was only a small movement to begin with but gradually grew and grew.

I remember how the Tories reacted against and spoke of Madiba , a little humbleness would be good, and a recognition of the utter evil some of them spoke at the time.

But whitewave (and others), does that not go against the spirit of the very thing that Mandela stood for - forgiveness? I was listening to an early speech of his last night on the news, when he had just come out of prison, and he said "Let bygones by bygones" in that old-fashioned manner of speech that he often used.

Have been thinking about you today GK. Hugs.
He was a wonderful man.

Thanks, Mamie . I've been feeling quite fragile today, and had a very busy day at work, so was pleased to leave the training event I was at to walk back to Waterloo from Piccadilly and past the South Africa House crowd, to briefly be with "my tribe". Glad I did that.

I agree with you Grannyknot. This is a time for reflecting on his words and putting them into practice.

A great model for all those looking for freedom and equality.

Let his name and spirit live on.

Yes I stand corrected! But I am not very good at forgiving and trusting some people, - still it at least is something to strive for. I have a long way to go to sainthood I am afraid.

I've just read a brilliant blog by Mark Steel

www.marksteelinfo.com/blog/

He was as close to a 'saint' as anyone of this world . He was not perfect but he was one of the world's finest examples of what humanity could be if we could only reach into that liquid gold of mercurial thinking married to humility , love , tolerance and forgiveness . He would probably have agreed with the 'overkill' statement being just an ' unemployed pensioner with a criminal record' as he described himself . Peace to him , to all of the children of SA and to the multi-coloured world that for once recognised a truly great man !

I listened to Obama's eulogy today and found it both powerful and moving. I'm sure it will be repeated and it is worth catching if you can.

No human being can ever be perfect - but what an example this man was! He joined he fighting element in his youth, but when it really mattered he came down on the side of forgiveness - without his lead in this matter, heaven knows what would have happened.

Yes, that was a great speech by Obama.
I watched most of the Memorial and found it very interesting....especially how Jacob Zuma was booed - and then cheered after.
Time for reflection on what has not been done?

I have been in touch with my distant relative Linda in Johannesburg, and she sent me a long email about how it was there through apartheid and after, and how Nelson Mandala had spoken to her friend Sheila's husband when he was in hospital - just in a casual and friendly way.
I'll see what she thought of the Memorial too.

I do hope all those leaders gathered at the Memorial today have some meaningful conversations that result in the best kind of lasting Memorial to Mandela - peace & reconciliation. A true saint has to be one that has also known what it was to be un-saintly & imperfect. And a great speech by Obama.

I wonder how significant it was that Obama shook hands with Raoul Castro. He will get some stick from the die-hards.

I just heard part of Obama's speech on the news and found it very moving. I'll make a point of listening to all of it.

I posted earlier, but a glitch led to it being lost. I just heard a bit of Obama's speech, and look forward to watching the news later. Like When, I watched Mandela leave prison, and got the children in from the garden to watch it, as a true historical moment. I boycotted SA goods at attended some anti apartheid demos and fundraisers. He was indeed a great man, who stressed he is an ordinary human being like all of us. He fought when necessary, and changed his views as time passed. That's inspirational and I wish his approach could be mirrored by more of us, myself included of course.
RIP Mandela

What a great man who had the gift of true humility, unfortunately South Africa is already witnessing discontent.
The white elite has now been replaced with a black elite and the Poor will just carry on suffering

MiceElf A great article by Mark Steele.

agile75. I don't think you're correct in saying that the white elite has been replaced with a black elite. As I understand it, although there is a growing black elite, there is still a substantial white elite - I don't think they have been replaced.

I do hope that you are right Eloethan and that the ANC will seek to follow the principles of Nelson Mandela in the future.To date corruption in government seems to be the order of the day and the poorest have not had their expectations met however we must all pray for peacefull outcomes

It seems to be impossible to remove corruption from African and other third world countries, because the only ones with the power to deal with the problem, are often corrupt themselves. We are lucky in places like the UK, Western Europe, Australia, NZ and America, in that corruption isn't endemic. It is the same with democracy - we understand it, and when the other mob win, we live with the disappointment rather than rioting on the streets, because we know the system worked honestly.

But how do you get a country like SA into that position? I really hope the memory of Mandela will prevail, and the country will develop and improve for all its citizens. At least they don't have religion problems, well, not to my knowledge. Many African countries have problems between Christian and Muslim, as well as tribal differences. These differences seem to get worse and worse.

I'm glad I won the birth lottery, being born in England, and I have only ever lived in western democracies.

Not so long ago that UK politics and public life were just as corrupt. Sam Pepys was on the take, like everyone else and remember all that vote-buying that went on in 19th C elections. In terms of history we are the exception.
There is also the historical problem that Britain and other European nations, swept into Africa etc, established nation states out of thin air, ruled them in our own inimitable style and then left very suddenly, leaving behind not just railways and a European language, but a power vacuum and a not very well educated population. Apart from India we weren't there very long at all.

I know - colonialism leaves a real mess, especially in places with a tribal culture.

Those borders in the Middle East sometimes mean little. It is the tribal and/or religion groups that matter. Of course, we had our own such conflict in our own lifetime - Northern Ireland. We in the mainland were never told of the great anti-catholic injustices that led to the conflict, just as many white South Africans never read about the racial injustices of apartheid. They just got the official line that it was 'separate development'.

I am glad to see that although I was pillared by some here for suggesting that the media especially the BBC went into overdrive over Mandela's death. It is comforting to have been proved right. They received many complaints.

As I said, a death always sad, especially for close family and friends but lets get it all in context.

In his early life he was violent towards his wife and was a philanderer and he admits himself he was not angel.

He has been touched with the Princess Diana stardust.

Where were you 'pillared' overthehill?

I can see no sign of it .... a few informed posters supplied further information on Mandela to explain the widespread coverage.

If you can't see the historical context of his death that might explain why you might find it 'comforting to have been proved right'.

I was expecting today's coverage of Nelson Mandela's funeral to dominate BBC1 this morning but was a bit miffed, when I settled down in my pyjamas with a mug of tea, to find that Carol Klein's Life In A Cottage Garden had been scrapped because no matter what's going on in the world, football fans MUST have their fix!