Grumpy post warning

Thanks Bags

I had obviously heard the Margaret Thatcher story but I had never seen hard evidence.

His charisma and smile did eventually win the argument that's for sure.

He accepted invitations to Downing Street and Buckingham Palace and I am happy to believe that he did so knowing more about the thoughts and deeds of those who invited him than any of us will ever know.

Thank you Bags

Something else interesting

Thanks, thatbags. I hadn't seen that before.

Letter from Margaret Thatcher to President Botha calling for release of Nelson Mandela.

Thank you Grannyknot for such an informative and enlightening post and the link.

Sounds ...e.g. accents? No, not really.

Don't you have memories triggered by certain sounds and images that remind you of the past, grannyknot? As a 16 year old, my keen sense of fairness was challenged when I heard a white family boast of their treatment of black servants, and it was their ignorance about equality that saddened and angered me. That memory is evoked when I hear an Afrikaans accent, but I don't act on it. I recognise it what for what it is, and I am glad that there were others like me who opposed apartheid in South Africa and joined Mandela in changing the regime.

gk I didn't need to put the mute button on because the stills photography spoke volumes. Thanks for link.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ONkyb_P8wU

When your post made me really sad with its narrow view. In 1964 I was an Afrikaner schoolgirl, desperately trying to fit in to the English academic class where I had been placed in high school. My family did not have servants, we couldn't afford them. Some of my wealthy English friends did, and it was at one of their homes where I first heard a servant being summoned by the ringing of a little bell that was kept on the table, to come and clear away the dishes.

Not all Afrikaans people supported Apartheid. The leader of the opposition party for many years was the highly respected Frederik van Zyl Slabbert, and he led breakthrough groups who set out to meet with other African leaders on the continent long before the ANC was unbanned. The Rupert family -wine magnates - together with other business leaders, used their influence to put pressure on the Government of the time.

Nelson Mandela loved the Afrikaners, and called them the true White tribe of Africa. He spoke flawless and beautiful Afrikaans. The Afrikaans speaking jailor who had been by his side throughout most of the long prison years, remained close to him, they had learnt much from each other. I can't remember his name now, but he was a guest of honour at the Presidential inauguration at Mandela's insistence. Zelda La Grange, a young secretary, had worked in the Presidential office for years and prepared herself to be sacked when Mandela came to office. She told of her amazement when he literally said to her "Where do you think you are going?" in perfect Afrikaans on his first day. She became his personal assistant and never left his side, and stayed with him after his retirement. Here's a youtube video, put the mute button on, because it's in Afrikaans (or 'kitchen Dutch' as I've heard it being described).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ONkyb_P8wU

I guess what I'm trying to say, so early in the morning, is that luckily for many of us the world moved on since 1964.

Trade and sports sanctions worked. It took a long time but it did work. Better than violence against things or people. Mandela recognised that.

Nobody is trying to.

French resistance tar and feathering? Bad things happen in just circumstances- what else was going to bring about change? You simply cannot reason with people who support apartheid

Here is how Tripathi describes Mandela's greatness after his imprisonment:

"And yet Mandela’s lasting gift was his power of forgiveness and lack of bitterness. He showed exceptional humanity and magnanimity when he left his bitterness behind, on the hard, white limestone rocks of Robben Island that he was forced to break for years, the harsh reflected glare of those rocks causing permanent damage to his eyes. And yet, he came out, his fist raised, smiling, and he wrote in his memoir, Long Walk To Freedom, that unless he left his bitterness and hatred behind, “I would still be in prison.”
By refusing to seek revenge, by accepting the white South African as his brother, by agreeing to build a nation with people who wanted to see him dead, Mandela rose to a stature that is almost unparalleled."

Salil Tripathi

Tyre necklacing?

And they are never called terrorists but heroes

But so did the French resistance

This article by Salil Tripathi would seem to suggest otherwise in the response to the Afrikaans "one Kaffir one bullet".

I've a couple more interesting article still to read.

The ANC planned and carried out acts of sabotage on infrastructure features like bridges and power stations. They did not aim to take human life, but to disrupt the working of the country. Amnesty International would never categorise Nelson Mandela and his colleagues as prisoners of conscience, although Winnie, under house arrest, was a POC. Ironically, she was the one that subsequently encouraged acts of violence by her notorious 'football team'.

BTW, I've never heard of Terry Dicks and I know nothing about what he has said today. My statement is just a simple one of historical fact.

The ANC did have a military wing that committed terrorist acts.

Isn't gutless and spineless a pre-requisite for most politicians. There are of course notable exceptions such as Paddy Ashdown but generally many of the self serving yes men & women have much to be ashamed of but never show their shame. I wonder how many would be so keen to join the gravy train if their ill thought out co*k ups were not funded with our money but their own.
As for democracy - I guess it can be defined as being given the opportunity to vote on what we are told will be happening and if we don't get it right we just keep voting until we do. Perhaps I am just a grumpy old cynic - or not!

But I agree the others are gutless

You are too kind River - he is just thick and doesn't understand what he's saying