Bus passes etc.

The WFA, like the £10 Christmas bonus payment, was introduced as a way of making pensioners happy and avoiding an actual increase in pensions. It has always been a precarious allowance since it can be taken away without too much trouble. A fair permanent increase in pensions ought to make the WFA unnecessary. I've read the Mumsnet thread. I've paid taxes, local and national, and NI all my life. I'm still paying tax and so are my DH and my 100 year old mother. Those taxes, among other things, go to support those who aren't in a position to earn enough to keep themselves. That's the way it works. Why it should suddenly come as a shock to some younger people that they might be paying so that others benefit, I cannot imagine!

Mollie , you are quite right in what you say.

I think I am correct in saying pensions have increased by £5 as opposed to 75p not so long ago. There is also the 'triple lock' guarantee, which I believe all 3 parties have said they are in agreement with.

It is obvious bus passes are used by some and not others. Therefore some are 'getting more help' than others financially. It is obviously the case there are many pensioners who do not use their Winter Fuel Payment for it's intended purpose because they have sufficient funds to cover their bill. As with the other WFA.

I have heard all 3 parties state that WFA is in their sight after the next election.

I am of the opinion the WFA was put in place to be a vote winner at the time which unlike putting the same cost into weekly pension rates could not be taken away without the biggest voter backlash.

For the reasons I have mentioned I feel that there is a reasonable argument to be made that WFA should be based on pensioner income. I have said before on a similar thread a long time ago. There are many families trying to keep a roof over their head, working hard and paying taxes. Yes I know the mantra 'Well I paid my taxes during my lifetime and I am entitled to it'. What I think is so are our children and to me they need as much if not more help than pensioners who have an incomes exceeding theirs.

Is it not fair to say that our taxes pay for many income support based reasons. I cannot differentiate between paying some pensioners housing allowance, paying for council tax,paying for home help etc. ALL of which are 'means tested' and paying WFA on the same basis. Is it not about helping those less well off.

Wouldn't it make sense to simply tax the WFA along with the rest of the retirement pension?

Thinking on that one anno.

definitely not anodomini the tax man takes enough off of me as it is with my private pension!!!!

dollie the taxman also takes enough off me with my small private pension but surely it is better to lose 20% (I assume you are not a higher rate taxpayer in which case you will probably not miss the loss of the WFA) of the £200 than to lose the whole £200 if you are deemed not 'poor enough'.

im a higher tax payer!!!!

dollie Lucky you!

Surely if you do not claim your bus pass, or very rarely use it, it does not cost the state very much any way?

What the local authorities pay the bus companies is based on estimates of how much they lose by accepting the passes. That is calculated from a combination of how many passes are issued and the number of times they have been registered as used in a previous survey, plus other considerstions. So not having a bus pass at all would not cost anything, having one and not using it might.

im far from being lucky nellie im worse off than some pensioners who are on pension credit!!!

I thought one of the reasons for allowing the price of petrol to creep up was because of the environment, so surely everyone should be encouraged to not use the car if possible. We've spent over £10 in car parking this week, and one of the hospitals in Nottingham is putting it's car parking charge up to £4 for 2 hours. When the S.O. has a bus pass in a few months we'll be going into town on the bus to shop and go to the cinema etc; the money we save in petrol and parking will be spent on something else.It isn't as if we're lighting a bonfire and burning it..it's still going back into the economy one way or another.

dollie - I doubt that you are worse off.
my income after tax is £12k per year - made up of state pension, SERPs and a small annuity. As a single pensioner I am allowed 10.5K personal allowance (as you would be). If you are saying that you have income above that amount to pay some higher rate tax then I don't see how you are worse off. I have to pay full whack for everything - no warm home discount, council tax benefit, etc. (25% off council tax is a bit of a help.) All my income above 10.5k is taxed at 20% including the measly interest I get on savings.
not complaining or getting at you personally - but I fail to see how £200 would make much difference to someone who is paying higher rate tax.

BTW - I am not on pension credit as I made provision for my retirement. - not such a good move after all.

i agree about it wasnt worth making provisions for retirement...

your comment ''but I fail to see how £200 would make much difference to someone who is paying higher rate tax.'' of course it will make a difference ....perhaps i have more out goings than you have not everyones circumstances are the same....

Higher rate tax band, £41,451 - £150,000 taxable income. So yes, I'd say you were lucky, dollie!

erm sorry ladies i think ive made a booboo...ooops....i dont get anywhere near that amount!! wish i did!! i was never any good with maths and understanding tax is a nightmare!!!!

I have never quite understood the WFA, other than as a one season vote getter. Most people, of all ages pay their fuel bills by monthly direct debit so spread the cost over the whole year and if you are on Pension Credit there is a cold weather supplement that is paid out when the temperature drops below freezing for more than a few days.

I pay tax on my pension and I can see no reason why I shouldn't. I may be retired but I still benefit from having roads to travel on, police to protect me, free health care, and all the other things the state funds that we really do not notice.

FlicketyB

I agree. If you have under £16.000 I believe in your savings there is help if required. At least that was the sum when my father had help. I know he was over 80 but I know he was very well looked after by the state.

As I posted too why do pensioners consider they are not tax payers the same as their children or anybody else earning above a certain level of income.

Everyone is a tax payer (think VAT, petrol duty, etc.) but not everyone is an income tax payer.

Absent

Fair point. On that basis should you not be entitled to those benefits that are paid out of that 'coffer' if you have not paid into it ??

i cant see many if any of us havent paid into the coffers over the years..

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/long-term-projections-of-pensioner-benefits

ps - the link works if you remove the 's' in https'
interesting read - not sure whether they are taking net immigration/emigration into account but the numbers of pensioners by 2050 onwards looks very alarming
not a worry to me personally but more for my grandchild.