In praise of Iain Duncan Smith's Welfare Reforms

Waltermitty

If you are calling me a bully then so be it. I have to respect your right to say it or else I would be a hypocrite.

What I will say to you is this.

When a poster only has 'diatribe' other posters can hardly give a reasoned response because it just becomes a slanging match. That possibly is the desired hope of the poster but it is better to make a comment that does not ignore the poster but doesn't get yourself into a vacuous conversation.

If all you have is a statement to make then how can others engage in dialogue with you. I think it is a shame when this happens as I honestly believe a lot of posters simply 'switch off'.

We all have a right to support whichever political party we want to. We all have a right to say what we think. We don't have the right to insult anybody who does not conform to our way of thinking but sadly is does happen and I don't think it unreasonable for there to be a response, maybe you do.

Overkill, Waltermitty!

Ivanhoe posted a rant, then said he/she was being objective (his own claim).

A couple of people commented (quite mildly, no ranting) on how they did not think it was objective. no insults there!

He responded that there was a lot of political ignorance on here, quoting the use of "labour" instead of "new labour" as an example.

Someone thought that insulting and dismissive of our right to an opinion.

Then you came in like the wrath of God to chastise us.

Oh, one last thing - playground bullying tactics (which I am sure all us smug, clever, cliqey gransnetters abhor) have just been used in a rather pathetic way against Ivanhoe, who is perfectly entitled to air his or her opinions - but to patronise and insult someone with a different viewpoint? That is truly pathetic. Been fun but no more - TTFN!

Totally Papaoscar: IDS - a failed politician, the "quiet man" who got 'handed a pup' with welfare reform! Who else has got so much to prove? Almost laughable to see him struggling to string a couple of coherent sentences together. As usual with politicians, it is a sledgehammer to a nut - an attempt to appease the " I have a woman that does " brigade - most of whom have no clue about the reality of living on the breadline and make patronising comments about those that are trying very hard to just survive. Not skivers or alcoholics but decent people who try hard but didn't 'marry well' or have a supportive family to push them. I also include people like myself who are carers and who are treated like saps for actually choosing to care for a relative rather than handing that care to a stranger - sorry but I think I am done with this site!! Over and out!!

Ana, sleep tight

I couldn't possibly say...

Oh, never heard of him/her.

Just ignore?

Ivanhoe has posted in the past. No reason for the thread to be killed stone dead!

You're right, POGS. Unfortunately, it has killed a perfectly reasonable debate stone dead.

Leave it. [hit your head with a frying pan emoticon]

If that is you when you are being objective, Ivanhoe then please forewarn us when you intend to be partisan, so that we can take cover.

ps are you saying we are ignorant? Perhaps you are right, but we are entitled to our opinions without being insulted.

It doesn't really sound objective to me!

And the BBC is compliant? Oh come on .....!

Hello again, Ivanhoe! You've been away for a while...

There's a lot of political ignorance on this forum. We havent had a "Labour" Government since the 1970's. "New" Labour under Tony Blair continued Thatcher's right wing free market policies.

IDS is a right wing Tory whose political parties ideology has run Britain since Thatcher. And its this free market system which has placed people in the situations they are in. I am not a member of any political party, and I can see IDS in n objective light.

Anybody praising this man needs to see a shrink.

David Cameron is using the deficit as a cover to dismantle the welfare State and the role of the State for the above mentioned reasons, but none of this reality is being picked up by either Labour Ministers, Lib-Dem ministers, or the BBC Media. This reality is being dumbed down. The BBC media is compliant.

The very fabric of the role of what the State should provide in tax payers money to welfare, services and State pensions, is being whittled away under cover of reducing the deficit, and there is no opposition to it.

The Tory mantra of making painful cuts to reduce the deficit is little more than a smoke screen they hide behind to implement their ideology of reducing the size of the State, driving down wages, cutting benefits ect.

My guess is that they'd make pretty much the same decisions for ideological reasons even if there wasn't a deficit.

The cynic in me says how easy it is for the right wing comfortably well off, greed infested Tory supporters to ridicule and chastise people on the receiving end of Tory cuts in welfare. And how equally easy it is for the right wing press to encourage this, just to sell their papers.

The Thatcherist, hard line, anti social policies the Tory's are forcing on us all makes them feel superior. And they perpetuate the suffering while living in their comfy homes without a conscience.

The Tory's pretend to care about the pensioners having to choose between heating, or eating, the Tory's pretend to care about the family's wondering how they are going to feed their children today and tomorrow.

The Tory's since Thatcher have been the same !

No longer a small "c" left of centre Conservative party with a good social conscience.
No, since the 80's they have been ultra right wing, hardnosed, and with no compassion but to condemn the poor to a life of misery and no hope so long as they can live in relative luxury.

This is how they want it, to keep the masses under their eternal control. The Tories only aim is power and control.

For that reason the Tories love it when the economy is bad, so bad that they blame the masses of poor for it. It is malicious and insidious.

And what makes it even more appalling is that the Tories actually do believe they are superior intellectually to everybody else.

This will be their downfall!, and I hope that this will be at the next general election in 2015.

The Tories deserve to be out of office for decades to come, if only to stop their bare faced arrogance.

Food banks in 21st century Britain, is as bad as the chronic homelessness we have, the awful old age poverty, and the low waged economy the Tories have nurtured throughout their 18 years of running Britain, 1979- 1997, and I might add, New Labour under Tony Blair and Gordon Brown, 1997- 2010, did nothing fundamental to reverse any of it.

Britain has suffered Thatcher's ideology for over 30 years. And the pensioners and the low waged workers are being screwed.

What I find interesting is that everyone on the board appears to have been appointed by this government. No friends in the UK Statistics Authority.

Seeing is believing.

Sigh. Never let statistics or systematically gathered scientific evidence get in the way of a firmly held opinion. Those ministers drive me mad (all parties).

A new slant on benefit fraud.
www.politics.co.uk/news/2014/05/16/iain-duncan-smith-used-false-statistics-to-justify-disabilit

If we are not prepared to help people with problems, then we as a society have to accept the consequences

The consequences of which could be a rise in criminal behaviour. People often quote the 'learn from history' but seem not to put it into practice: if people are going hungry or cold, they could well feel there is no alternative but to take what they need to survive; how can that make sense?

The whole enterprise of DHSS changes has happened too quickly, especially for older people, which hasn't given those who become affected time to make arrangements: in the case of someone my age, who is going to offer pension provision at this late stage? Where are all these jobs that we are supposed to be applying for? Why are so many employers able to pay such low incomes that people can't afford to live without having their incomes topped up?

Why isn't financial help available to help people set up their own businesses? Why do local councils not offer reduced rent/rates for start-ups to ease the financial burden during those first critical years? Why not give tax breaks (including Employers National Insurance which, I believe, is around 13% of each employees pay) to people who manufacture items in Britain thereby making those products more affordable?

Micro enterprises provide more jobs and do more for the local community than their larger counterparts - yet little support is given from Government. If this support was given, maybe the jobs would be there for people to apply for; whilst we keep the status quo, things will never improve.

Blaming fellow countrymen is not always the answer; changing the system often is.

Agreement with durhamjen and Ariadne from me. Ninny, I've already said I share the frustration expressed by many about benefit fraud. Your point about the state pension and job seekers is a reasonable one. I have sympathy for people whose benefits are stopped (often for weeks) because they fail to jump through every hoop, on every occasion, and on time. Individuals who have learning difficulties or mental health problems aren't always able to organise themselves properly. If your literacy skills are poor, using a computer at the library won't be easy. In fact, going into the library may present a challenge to many. Our local libraries no longer have enough staff to help all comers, but at least we have a local library.

"If we are not prepared to help people with problems, then we as a society have to accept the consequences. In my view that means accepting that a few people will try to fiddle the benefit system, in order to help the majority that do not."

Exactly, durhamjen! Where there is no compassion, there is no humanity. The survival of the fittest is the law of the jungle, not of the human world.

durhamjen I have great sympathy for you over the loss of your husband obviously he slipped though the net and it must have been a terrible time for you.

I hope your nephew manages to get a job of course I do. But surely if you knew you had to go to the job centre to sign on at a certain time and that if you didn't go at that time you would be sanctioned any sensible person would make sure they got there on time. You would put money away out of your benefits for bus fare or leave in plenty of time if you had to walk.

£78 is not a lot to live on, you only get about £110 state pension, but if they gave everyone as much as they would get working minimum wage then some claimants would not look for work. You need some sanctions otherwise some people would just not bother.