Floods and blame shifting

I should clarify my statement this is a manmade problem.

There would be flooding on the Levels/Moors given the weather conditions. However they would most definitely not be the dire flooding levels we are seeing now.

DH said that no-one ever resigns for failing to do their job properly these days, if they are removed they move on the merry-go-round to another lucrative position to mess that up/go to the House of Lords/do both.

POGS looking to the future, if we have more winters like this, there will have to be tough decisions made. There are brutal cuts in public expenditure still to come. 9% to come off the NHS. If Cameron is going to suddenly restore the cut budget of the EA and give them lots more money to restore and improve flood defences then a great deal of money is going to have to be found. So would you like even bigger cuts in the NHS, and other public services? Or would you like to pay a dollop more tax? Or maybe freeze pensions? Because those are really the sort of choices that will have to be made if you don't want to let nature take its course.

We're an island nation, JessM. Are you saying that we should let nature take its course and to hell with anyone who has managed to make a living in areas that have traditionally flooded but nowhere near as bad as this year? We have a lot of coastline, a lot of rivers, a lot of lowland and a farming heritage which you seem to think isn't worth a hill of beans.

Your posts smack of, I'm alright Jack!

JessM, there would be enough money in the pot if all those who owed tax were made to pay. Even more if rich people agreed to pay 50 or 60% tax.
As the Danish people say, they have a good welfare system because they pay for it.

Jen - was not saying that your village should not get this money, and I am glad it is doing so and someone knows how to alleviate the problem. What I was trying to ask you was whether you think the money is best spent by distributing it locally to solve the flooding problems with local knowhow combined with technical knowledge, or if we need a huge national project overseen by people like, perhaps the Dutch with their expertise? Hope that makes sense

I wish you well and anyone who is facing this dreadful situation.

They seem to always find the money to help other countries, go to war, build rail links that may or may not benefit the country. How much tax is avoided - enough to make a start anyway.

Jess

It has b-----r all to do with the NHS funding.

The root cause of this goes back to the 90,s when the responsibility for the Somerset levels/Moors was handed over to the newly formed government agency the Environment Agency.

The Environment Agency first decision was the root cause of the problems we have known to cause problems over the years up to now. IT STOPPED THE DREDGING OF THE 4 MAIN RIVERS in the area. This act of stupidity meant that the rivers have less capacity to hold the water. Any idiot can surely understand if you have a river that is 15/20 foot deep and you let it silt up and it becomes 3/4foot deep that river will burst it's banks under duress.

In 2000 Labour peer, Baroness Young of Old Scone and her cohorts at the Environmental Agency became a swear word in Somerset to the locals. It wasn't the cost of dredging that was their concern, they decided in their ignorance of how the rivers and rhynes work to allow large areas to return to a natural habitat for birds and wildlife. Sod the farming industry or the people who live and work there. The Environment Agency have been warned for years that dredging was a necessity but they couldn't care less.

Baroness Scone is known for stating ' I would like to see a limpet mine put one every pumping station'. Well done misses your crass stupidity and plenty of others who have been in charge managed to cause the wildlife and birds more harm by their actions than if the rivers had been dredged. OWN GOAL!!!!!!

Let the local people TELL them what needs doing. If you think that this area can simply go under think on this. Your meat, milk etc., might cost you more. Somerset is a massive good for the economy and our ability to produce products that are essential for the country is something no sane person would wish to see go under. Sadly I worry that this time this flood will prove too much for the communities to start over, but they are a hardy bunch and I for one wish them well. Yes the Levels/Moors would have flooded given this weather but the scale of the flooding has been made worse because of the ineptitude of the Environment Agency.

No need to be personal merlot I am just trying to provoke reasonable debate. It would be easy, but not realistic, to say "isn't it awful and it should be prevented in future whatever the cost".
We are all sorry for those affected and I am currently concerned about the rising river at the bottom of my sister's garden.
Given the likelihood that winters (or even summers) like this could, realistically, become more common as a result of changing weather patterns, and given the tightening budget the government has set, it is clear that difficult decisions will have to be made about restoring and protecting coastlines, low lying areas and other vulnerable areas. Politicians, a year away from an election campaign are obviously keen to be seen to be doing something but unless they revisit their financial plans they will only be able to make empty pledges and hollow promises. I don't think they are, for instance, going to say they are going to ditch HS2 and do flood protection instead. (would provide employment though )
Many parts of the country are still struggling with roads that were damaged by the 3 hard winters. But that kind of money is peanuts compared to flood protection.
Very interesting post pogs - a case where it was a big mistake to merge 2 quangos - the NRA got swallowed up by the EA and overwhelmed by the "protect the environment " agenda. Conflicting agendas in low lying areas.

Good post, POGS. The EA has made a complete mess of things throughout the south-west. The impact on Devon and Cornwall could put a blight on this year's tourism, too. The cynical side of me says the government will want this sorted out before the election next year, otherwise that's a massive chunk of the electorate with a powerful vote to hold over them.

Jess it's true we are an island nation as Merlot said and we can't do much about rising sea levels, but there are actions which haven't been taken and options that haven't been considered due to misguided budget cuts. It's false economy to allow your house to fall into disrepair and I think the government will find the cost of the clear up, in financial terms, outweighs the money 'saved' and in personal terms you cannot put a price on the misery suffered by these poor people.

Did anyone else see that woman's joy when reunited with her horse after she thought it had drowned?

I think a farmer interviewed on the radio summed it up rather neatly. If you want to put a gallon of water into a gallon bucket, you won't be able to if that bucket is half full of silt, and while dredging isn't the complete answer by any means it is certainly a very important part of any flood management particularly on reclaimed land such as the levels. Perhaps the EA/whoever could just stop and listen to local folk who have lived there for generations and KNOW how to manage the 'weather/land' and take some heed at what they are saying - Yes I did see that woman's joy and rejoiced with her. It also brought home the enormity of what these people are going through.

We've been in tears on more than one occasion, Aka. Watching cattle being loaded up to be taken to a safe place, hearing of the farmer who has sent his calves to slaughter and has nothing left and the lovely scene where the woman was reunited with her horse. Is that the same woman whose vet offered to take her other ponies as she has no grazing?

Interesting that no one on here has accused Prince Charles of meddling in politics after his phone call to David Cameron.

DD sent me a picture of frogs in her kitchen....Maybe it's too wet for them in the garden

Aka

I have followed the threads on this closely and I know you have made good sense and have been empathetic, so when I say this please don't think I am being pedantic about something you have said.

There has been a reference concerning the so called budget cuts. This is not the problem at all. The Environment Agency has spent more money on trying to protect wildlife than dredge the rivers and rhynes which protect the farming industry and the people who work and have homes there. It is something I am passionate about and I am hoping the media eye on the Environmental Agency over the coming weeks will start to exploit the abject neglect this quango has managed to get away with for years.

It must be put back into the hands of the local people who know how to manage the area.

Nigglynellie.

I am not sure but is that the same farmer who said exactly what I thought. "We want somebody now who can kick ass".

Of course we can spend £100m on a replacement for Trident. I wonder what the people who are currently flooded out of their homes and land think about that.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/feb/03/afford-replace-trident-why-want-to

That is not the point though is it. That is a political comment that diverts from the fact the Environment Agency are not fit for the purpose in this instance.

I could say what about spending on overseas aid. What about spending on the EU. We would not agree between us over how the money is spent. It has nothing to do with the money allocated being wasted and not used practically by the top management in the Environment Agency. There was sufficient money spent in the Somerset area just not for any constructive use.

But the whole thing is political, Pogs. The Government has reduced its allocation to the EA and although they are indisputably headless chickens at the moment, surely improved funding, plus a change of leadership would be helpful.

I think most of us would be perfectly happy about foreign aid, the EU and so on, and, in the case of foreign aid be happy to help those in distress in foreign parts; but what we are NOT happy with is being told that while aid overseas appears to be sacrosanct, aid for our own countrymen has had to be virtually begged for, while being told that money is very tight, and making those same 'begging' people feel faintly unreasonable for asking in the first place. This is, I think what makes ordinary everyday people angry. The appearance of a bottomless purse with alacrity on one hand, and grudging over late response on the other.

I would like to know when and why farmers stopped dredging their own ditches and started blaming the EA. It must be something to do with money and the amount they get from the CAP.

pogs your analysis of what has gone on in the past in Somerset is excellent and informative. But harking back to what they have spent money on in the past is not going to solve problems in the future. The EA has just had a big budget cut and is getting rid of 500 staff who have expertise in flooding. They almost certainly don't have the money to repair all the damaged flood defences around the country. They certainly don't have the money to undertake extensive new works to recover the Levels back to where they were 20 years ago. So how is it not about money and political decisions about money?
Yes ditching Trident or HS2 might be sensible. I'd vote for those.

DEFRA /EA cuts news from last summer
www.theguardian.com/environment/damian-carrington-blog/2013/jun/26/spending-review-2013-environment-flood

durhamjen. I think I've said this before on another thread. If a farmer dredges his own ditch and there is nowhere for the water to go you get flooding. Some ditches are the responsibility of the Internal Drainage board and some are the responsibility of the farmer.

I'm not absolving the Environmental Agency from blame POGS and Lord Smith in TV yesterday was an example of the worst kind of politicising when he deflected each and every question.
It's the combination of errors that have led to this. Reduced central funding, arrogance and poor management of local waterways on the part of the EA and of course the weather.

No offence taken incidentally.

Anno

Yes money will need to be found but you are still missing then point.

This was not a funding problem it was a management problem. This was a disaster waiting to happen because of ignorance of how to manage the Levels / Moors by successive heads of the Environment Agency.

You are talking about the last few years, I am talking about the last 18 years!!!!

If you want to make it political then I will say this. Get shot of Labour Lord Smith before he finishes in 4 months is it? No doubt with a pat on the back and a massive financial package. Only think this because it was made reference to when he was 'shouted' at by a t.v crew.

I don't know if Labour's Lady Scone is still alive (can't be bothered to find out) if so perhaps she could apologise for her absolute disregard for the people of Somerset if she is. Also any Head of the Agency that has been in charge of what ever colour, I don't care, they have all been useless.

They are mainly Libdems down there, aren't they, When? So Tory and Labour will win out over this.
Maybe nature will force the government to give up on austerity, and bring people back to work in the south west. There will certainly be a lot of repair work and infrastructure work, perhaps even a new railway needing to be built away from the coast, Exeter to Plymouth via Okehampton, which was closed by Beeching. Vast sums of money will need to be spent quickly if the whole of the south west is not to suffer more than it is doing, not just the piddling little amounts that the government is saying.
Puddletown was flooded the last time I looked on the EA interactive map.