I'm tempted by Nigel Farage !

Misunderstood your reply, Durhamjen! Apologies.

Nfk, I don't think your family are exceptions; In fact I know they are not! And I don't think Australian policy has got it right at all in that regard, which is causing problems such as you mention. I think if people integrate more then barriers can be broken down.

However, I wasn't necessarily talking about race, more the wide range of nationalities that I have met there.

The life expectancy of aboriginal australians is 20 years less than the rest of the population. Most of them live in remote places and not the sprawling suburbs where the majority of the population live.

I'm so glad to hear things are good in Australia and that my Aussie family are exceptions. I find it quite embarrassing the way they talk. I have never been able to tell a person's colour or ethnicity just by looking at them or even their accent, so race discrimination is a bit of a mystery to me. The person inside the skin is what's important.

I do not understand your response to my answer, rose. I am for building new towns and on the greenbelt where necessary. That is where they are going to live.

I wasn't making a differentiation on the grounds of colour anyway, just saying there is a huge mix of nationalities from many countries of the world living in Australia.

NFK, I have only visited Sydney for holidays and spend more time in Queensland.
As for staying apart, one of DD1's best friends is of Aboriginal origin, their previous next door neighbour also, and the teacher DGS loved the most at nursery was also indigenous Australian.

Like all groups in society, some wish to mix and integrate and others prefer not to; it is the same in all countries. That is not to say that there are not problems over there, but that is a digression.

The White Australia Policy finished in, I believe, 1972 - more than 40 years ago, and they always had a policy of taking in refugees who arrived by legitimate routes.

Hi Rosequartz

Yes, Australia is a melting pot - I love that aspect of the country. We came here in 1979 because Thatcher got elected and we knew she would do terrible things. We had a new baby and had his future to think about. It worked out great for him and his brother, born here three years later. They are both university-educated, happy, in stable relationships and with good career paths so I guess we got what we wanted.

Trouble is, we do get homesick, and I read the UK news every day. But we have some very good friends, and have a secure life in retirement, on the Australian government pension. The Queensland climate is a plus, too.

I do worry about problems with Islamists in the UK (as opposed to every day Muslims), and those nasty stories about schools getting infiltrated by these horrible fundamentalist islamists. How much is true, and how much is hype I don't know, but such tales are pure gold to far right wing parties.

My own solution to politics is to stay with mainstream parties, in my case, the Labour party. They will usually have moderate policies, and kick out MPs or candidates who cross the line in any way. Mind you, our current Tory party is getting a bit extreme...time will tell how bad it all gets. There's always the next election. And here, we all have to turn up at a polling station, or do a postal vote, or cop a fine.

Well there was a White Australia policy until the 70s and Queensland was known for its apartheid-like policies in those days.
The immigration of non-europeans is mainly Asian with a smattering of Pacific and Maori. Grandkids schools have tended to be about 98% white I'd say.

My aunt and uncle in Sydney would never have considered themselves racist - but you should have heard what they thought of Native Australians/Aborigines. I get the impression from my cousins that the only reason different ethnic groups get along in Australia is that there's enough space for them to stay apart!

Good post Pogs

I am astonished, JessM! You obviously travel to different parts of Australia than I do!

Am mystified by notion of Australia as melting pot. None of the bits I've been to, that's for sure. (Perth, NSW and Brisbane airport). NZ multiethnic in a pacific kind of a way. Lots of Chinese etc people in Auckland and almost no-one of African origin.
Yes my son in Australia gets asked by locals "did you come here to get away from the immigrants". No sense of irony. He presumes they mean "blacks".

It is the usual stance of the Forage hater to bring colour / race into the fold. It is actually a matter raised more by them than Forage himself. Hence you have the Forage hater who makes it a racist point of view and the UKIP supporter who makes it a racist matter aligning themselves, albeit in opposite camps, through not listening to what he says but having their own prejudices override what is factually being debated.

My understanding of what he says is not about the ethnicity of the immigrant but the value they will bring to the country. I agree totally with that point. That is no different to the Australian Immigration System and that is what he too advocates. Is he wrong when he says that he wants say an Indian engineer but not an open door policy to anybody from the EU of which we don't know of their background, whether that be their skills, their police record, their financial record or their need for housing and welfare.

I will be accused of being a little Englander and a UKIP voter but I am neither. I am a normal person who can see for themselves that we are The Old Woman Who Lived In A Shoe. Our schools are not coping, our housing stock will never be sufficient, our doctors surgeries and hospitals are going into melt down because of the numbers and it is irrational to the point of self destruction to carry on as we are going.

The whole system of immigration is a catch 22. On one hand there are some good points on the other there are some terrible points to be made. The problem is adault debate cannot be undertaken because of the continual shout of racism by some, it will go round and round in a circle until you disappear up your own backside.

This a topic where emotional connections come into play and I fully understand that. I do have family, friends and past work mates that have come from all backgrounds and ethnic origins but I am so glad we are all reasonable people who have at one time or another been able to debate immigration in a way we respect each others point of view and to be honest it has mostly been in favour of the need to curb immigration for the sake of not only the indigenous population but for the future of those who have successfully fully integrated into our country.

No wonder the Scottish Nation want Home Rule!

Not to mention cow farts...

And cat poo....

The problem as I see it is this.

If we are in the EU we cannot limit immigration from other EU countries.
If we opt out we are likely to lose lucrative trading opportunities and businesses are telling us this will harm them.
If we cannot limit future immigration then we face overcrowding and having to build more houses on green belt.
To accommodate future immigration trends we will have to build more hospitals and schools etc, but this isn't a problem as the taxes raised by immigrants in jobs and paying taxes ought to cover such new builds.
Add to this an ageing population who will need improved care facilities.
Plus the escalating cost of the NHS as obesity level sore...
Global warming, floods and pandemic flu....

So ??? where is everyone going to live?

I'm against NF on immigration and for building new towns and on bits of the green belt where necessary.
Sorry to disappoint, rose and Aka.

That's a good point.

Yes, Ana, I get very confused. Are the same people who are against NF on immigration the same people who are totally against building on green belt land and the building of new towns?
They can't have both.

(the sheer number!)

rosequartz, you asked: "Is NF concerned about immigration on race grounds or sheer number grounds as we are geographically such a small country?"

That's always been my understanding of his views, and I think it's the view of many British people. This is becoming a thread about racism...again!

Interesting article in today's times about how immigrant groups in Britain are generally better motivated to get a good education that indigenous people, and that white, working-class boys in particular have an anti-education ethos.

Gadaboutgran - I never thought of Australia and NZ as places where 'white Brits' would want to flee - from what?

My family who are over there went first as an adventure then stayed because they liked it and because of the wider opportunities available.
They have friends from many ethnic backgrounds.