Benefit Cheats?

You still haven't answered my question to you on another thread, durhamjen, but that's by the by.

NO I have not seen the forms. Why should that be relevant? I'm very tempted to repeat the sentiments expressed by someone else in a post which was unfortunately deleted, but I think I'll just let you rant on.

I agree, Rose, but do you think there seem to be more who are out for what they can get because we are told about it more?

The people who are cheating the benefit system are the sort of people who would be cheating the tax system if they were rich, or cheating the expenses sytem if they were in a position to do so, whether in public or private employment.

The majority of people are honest, but there do seem to be more and more people in all walks of life who are out for what they can get by fair means or foul.

Told you it was an awkward question, Galen.
As you said, at times it's hard.
I think Atos are trying to get out of the PIP assessments anyway, as they can't cope at all.
Joelsnan, like Galen said, the claimant has to tell them if there are any changes. The brother of a friend of mine had both legs amputated because of diabetes. He got a letter every year to ask him if there had been any improvement.
Still haven't answered the question, have you, Ana; have you seen the forms?

In fact it's still DLA here as ATOS don't seem to be able to cope with PIP.
No!
I took the judicial oath to administer justice to all.
That's what I try very hard to do!
At times it's hard, but I have to obey the law

There must be some who are adept at form filling, because there are still some recipients not entitled who are claiming.

I would be surprised if anyone didn't think it was right to check whether a medical condition had improved enough for a claimant to take a job.

I know a private detective who sometimes works for DSS who has interesting (anonymous) tales to tell.

Yes, I think we've got the message, durhamjen.

Haven't answered the question, though, have you, Ana. Have you seen the forms? You cannot claim DLA now, it's PIP, personal independence payments.
You have to tell them whether you can cook a meal, go to the toilet and what you have to do when you get there, walk 20, 50 or 100 metres, go to bed, get up, sit down, stand up. You can tell them what aids you need like catheters and leg bags, whether you can wash yourself or whether someone needs to bodily lift you into the shower. It's better just to have your GP tell them how you are, but that's not really taken any account of by Atos. You are allowed to tell them how much pain you are in. There wasn't enough room on the form for all the doctors that my husband had to list every year, and that was before he got cancer.

I seem to remember that many long term unemployed over 50s were transferred onto invalidity benefit years ago to make the unemployment figures look better. This benefit was more generous and did not require the claimant to sign on fortnightly.

Oh, sorry for expressing an opinion. I'll leave you and Galen to it then!

My husband fell off a ladder and broke his back in 1996. He was never self-certificated. He had to fill in a form every year reminding him about his accident. We had GPs coming to the house to watch him walk. Couldn't see the pain, though, could they?
Have you actually seen the forms that have to be filled in to claim DLA?
Galen, like me, seems to know about it. That's why I was asking her.

So do you think self-certification is fair and reasonable, durhamjen?
Of course the rules needed changing - medical assessment would seem to me to be a basic requirement for DLA and any other disability claims.

You must know, Galen, about how much the rules have changed since 2010. Do you feel guilty about stopping the DLA from people who no longer get it because of rule changes, or do you think the rule changes are fair?
Sorry if I seem to be asking awkward questions, but obviously I can only see it from the point of view of people I know and from websites like opendemocracy and falseeconomy.

I'm 55, won't even get a pension for 11 years!

Yes a lot of them are third party anonymous

Phoenix The Saints and Sinners Prog showed how DSS had caught cheats and what they had been doing. It also showed those who were in need and not claiming, it was shown on a morning.
It was surprising how many from a particular African nation were/are fleecing the system to vast amounts, by claiming at numerous addresses, having numerous 'invisible' children etc.

A friend of mine took her elderly mother to Age Concern and they showed her just how much she was entitled to and not claiming. If you are within this group maybe they could advise you, or maybe Citizens advice?

Yes, I was pondering on that earlier today, durhamjen. Many of us seem to know, or know of, people claiming benefits they're not entitled to, or cheating the system in some other way, but all we do is grumble about it.

I suppose it just goes against the grain to 'grass' on someone, especially if you think they might suspect it was you who did so!

Has anyone actually shopped those they think are cheating? It's a bit pointless complaining when there is a system to do so.
That should get you more work, Galen.

That's why I said not to count pensions as a benefit as obviously this would skew the results.
Ana, nobody is asking anyone to list the benefits they receive. It's just that people were saying how many benefit cheats they knew so I asked how many people they knew who were claiming benefits honestly, otherwise it would look as if everyone only knew people who were dishonest.
By corollary, there must be others on here who, like Phoenix. get benefits honestly.

The problem with DLA was started by Hugh Rossi.
He stated that claimants should not need to be examined and that the then DHSS should believe what claimants said.
Several advice organisations then (and still do) told claimants to fill forms in as it would be on their worst possible day. That plus encouragement from above to give either life or very long awards, led to a vast number of incorrect awards.
These are now being reviewed. People are understandingly annoyed by being told that they are not now entitled, although in many cases they are either the same or in some cases worse than when originally awarded the benefit.
This is not true fraud. But the onus has always been on the claimant to report any change in their condition.

Joels do you mean it showed how to cheat/work the system? I don't remember that one.

It does get me riled when I see my ex husband living the life of riley, when I know full well that he was claiming all sorts of benefit AND working for cash at one point. Also a neighbour (who has now moved) who also seemed to be living the high life at the states expense.

phoenix I am in agreement with Galen have you asked if you are entitled to any more money? That is an impossible amount to survive on, even for one day.

What's the point in listing what benefits we receive (or don't)?

Phoenix There used to be a jaw dropping programme on the BBC, I think it was called Saints and Sinners that showed how it was done.

rosequartz - me too
I do receive state pension and a pittance of graduated pension sufficient to take me over pension credit level!
I don''t consider this a 'benefit' - it is the 'pension bit' of the Department for Work and Pensions |(otherwise it would be called the Department of Work and Benefits )