Teachers' strike

10 times the salary of a teacher granjura what is she? a barrister?

I do appreciate that there are some very good and dedicated teachers but come on................. Its like a mutual appreciation society for retired teachers on here today !

Going back a page to reply to ana I think it was only the NUT on strike. I started off in the NUT, then, when I refused to strike, was gently told to change unions if I couldn't agree. So I went to NASUWT, and the same thing happened. Eventually I moved to ATL, where one could follow one's conscience.

Teaching is an immensely rewarding job, and I would never have wanted to do anything else.

I retired, without pay or a pension, aged 52- I was burnt out, despite having just loved what I did with a passion. In the 4 schools I taught at, I only encountered a tiny number of poor teachers- and a huge number of amazing and totally dedicated ones.

When our DD1 finished her Degree and could not find a job straightaway- I suggested she did a PGCE (1 year post grad teaching qualification)- she looked at me and laughed, and laughed and laughed some more.

I asked her why and her answer was clear 'mum, she said, I watched you prepare, mark and do school reports, night after night for all those years- and I watched you come home totally exhausted and sometimes in tears' and there is NO way I worked so hard to get a good Degree to do the same- NO WAY'.

She now works very hard, long hours, 5 weeks holiday- but she never has to deal with a Set5 class of 15 year olds on a Friday afternoon after PE...
and she earns about 10 times the salary of a teacher. Same for the other daughter, although she gave up Uni after one year and found another route to a great career.

What sort of people do we want to teach our grand-kids- those who can't access anything else, or those who are the brightest, and who'd choose teaching because they love it- despite a much lower salary? I know compared to many, a teacher salary looks quite good- but don't forget it takes 2 years in 6th Form + 4 years of study to become one- and the good ones would have openings on much higher paid careers.

I agree with everything you say, Dragonfly. I used to be marking up to midnight most nights and the first week of every holiday I would spend asleep. And the paperwork has got much worse since I left teaching, as I know from my son and daughters in law.

No wonder education's in such a state when a (retired) teacher can't write coherently! Hours worked per week would be around 32.5. Which sounds great, especially with 13 weeks holiday. Except that it never worked like that for me, or any other teacher I know. I'd be in at half seven, leave around half five or six, rarely have a lunch hour and spend at least half of the holidays in school or doing school work. And at least two hours a night and half the weekend planning, marking or making resources. I never moaned about the hours, loved the teaching bit and appreciated the holidays. But I think teachers are just so frustrated by the constant goalpost-shifting, interference and endless pointless paperwork and box-ticking. There are good and bad in all professions, and teaching is no different, but most teachers really do just want to be allowed - and supported - to give kids the best they can. And now I'll go to bed and refresh my obviously addled brain!

Sorry, Ana, reading back my post it's wrong - teachers' contracted hours are 1265 over 195 days. That makes more sense. It's been one of those days!

I support the teachers and can quite understand why they went out on strike. If it is such a cushy number, why do so many leave after a few years?

I spent most of my working life as a legal secretary, for which I was well paid and, at least in London, had fantastic benefits (including 6 weeks holiday, thorough annual health checks, heavily subsidised restaurant, etc., etc.). I re-trained as an adult literacy teacher in my latter years of working, and, though I enjoyed it immensely, I just could not afford - energy-wise, money-wise and health-wise - to continue. I found that, with all the hours put in preparing: lesson plans, lesson material (and photocopying it), termly schedules, student profiles, individual learning plans, sessional progress sheets, end of term reports, etc., etc., etc., I was working full-time hours for part-time pay. I reluctantly returned to secretarial work.

Having now retired, I'm doing voluntary work in a school and I am full of admiration for the teachers there. If a teacher is conscientious (and I feel sure that most of them are), it is a very responsible and demanding job and one in which they seem to be under constant attack.

Sorry, not all, but certainly those on starting salary.

So they're all working for less than the minimum wage then. No need to strike...

Yes, compulsory.

Good point, seasider.

So, a bit vague about actual hours worked then - understandably, I suppose it's a bit like a GP.

But for those of us (and there don't seem to be many!) who aren't retired teachers, it's hard to calculate exactly how hard-done-by present teachers are in terms of pay and conditions. The 1265 hours - are they compulsory?

My DH is a teacher, so we have talked about the strike. He is scathing about striking teachers I'm afraid. Yes, there are hours of prep and marking and so on but it's a rewarding job, and fairly well paid. It's hardly going down the mines, in his view, and the holidays are fantastic.

I suppose it varies from school to school. It's usually the length of the school day plus before and after school duty taken from directed time as decided by the Head. Plus in my last school a ninety minute meeting three or sometimes four days a week after school. Again, this probably varies a bit.

I work in public sector and we were told in no uncertain terms we had to make alternative arrangements for our children so we could attend work! I assume the day my son lost today is less valuable than a day if he was on holiday with me for which I would be fined.

How many hours does a 'day' consist of?

Working hours are 195 days per year plus 1265 hours 'directed time', which are usually taken up with before and after school duties, meetings, parents' evenings and things like school productions etc. Teachers are also required to 'work such reasonable additional hours as may be necessary to enable the effective discharge of the teacher's professional duties'. This covers the time required for planning, marking and assessment. Teachers have a statutory right to PPA time for this within the working week. I think it is ten percent of teaching time. There is no leave entitlement outside school holidays other than on compassionate grounds - funerals etc. Starting salary is currently £21,804 for qualified staff (more in London.) Does that help POGS? All the info is available if you google teachers' pay and conditions.

BTW I had to laugh at Nonnie's comment about 'only' having five weeks holiday! I have never worked anywhere where the holiday entitlement was more than four weeks

Yes, I'd be interested to know the average number of hours worked per week by teachers after taking school holidays into account. I know they have preparation, marking etc. to do, but they certainly get a lot more time off the actual job than any other worker.

I am trying to work out something in my mind. I am trying to compare a teaching job with another. I am trying hard to understand the constant 60 hour week professed to be the norm for a teacher to work, hence unpaid overtime.

So does anybody know:-

What is the official number of paid working hours per week for a teacher.

What is the official holiday leave entitlement for a teacher.

Is the holiday entitlement, over and above the various school closures. e.g if a school is closed for 6 weeks in the summer, 2 weeks for spring, 2weeks for Xmas, plus many other days and teacher day's is the official leave allowance taken extra to those official school closures, or does a teacher have to include their leave entitlement within the school closure times.

What is the starting pay for a teacher.

I don't know the answers and as there are so many posters from the teaching profession I would be grateful if a poster would respond to my enquiry please.

I don't think anyone goes on strike lightly. However right you believe your cause, it is a strange and unsettling experience.

I also don't think people putting in hours of unpaid overtime, whatever the job, is something for society to be proud of but rather something to be ashamed of.

Merlotgran - off for a . X

Sorry, J52 I realise that now.

I agree.