Max Clifford

Posted too soon

Being 'grown up' doesn't happen as one changes from 15 to 16.

But they were still young and wouldn't know how to handle something like that when the person involved was MC or anyone else with' influence' and arrogance!!

I would agree with that if he was their teacher or something else in authority over them. But he wasn't. They new what they were doing.

I'm not making any excuses for his behaviour. He was vile morally. But was his behaviour actually criminal? Apart from the underage girl I'm not sure it was. I believe in fair justice and the courts don't always get it right.The more I think about this, the more I feel something is wrong.

Well said, kitty.

I can't believe that some posters can't remember what it was like to be young and impressionable.

These offences happened in different times when people were much more impressed by people like MC and things such as these were not talked about so openly.

The girl who wrote about her experiences in the paper was probably hugely relieved to be believed and to be able to talk about it without thinking it was her fault - although some members of GN seem to think it was.

The only thing that really matters is that the girls/women were young and he was an adult and took advantage.

Jimmy Savile was also a great charity fund raiser.

Lorianne we usually try to avoid making personal derogatory comments about other posters!

Oh - and his wife has apparently lost her devotion to him somewhere along the way. So what does that say (if indeed anything at all).

Lorriane I prefer "opinionated"

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Interesting to hear all these comments. Jingles, you sound like an attention seeker to me, but of course I am only going by your behaviour on this thread.

Of course his daughter can be devoted to him and why shouldn't she be? I feel sorry for her too but that is not viewing his proven behaviour in an impartial manner.

He did a great deal of charity work too but that does not excuse or mitigate the crimes of which he has been convicted.

petallus Why shouldn't this woman tell her story of what happened to her all those years ago? Bravo, I say!
It says to me that she's no longer an invisible victim, but a mature woman who is, finally, seen and believed. She had a choice to do so or not, and made her decision.

Don't court cases like these come down to one person's word against another? After so many years have passed there never seems to be any corroborative evidence - at least none is reported. One of them has to be telling untruths.

I got the distinct impression that the judge in this case actively disliked Clifford and let that colour his comments. He didn't sound very impartial to me.

glamma You have actually hit the nail on the head.

I do feel for his daughter She does look devoted to him.

I personally think that if this man was not so full of his own importance the sentence would not have been as long as it is,that is not to think that the key should be thrown away for offences like this.

Doubtless there will be an appeal. Most of us are not qualified to pontificate. Which is where I will bow out of this fruitless discussion.

There was a tiny bit of news tucked away in the corner of my newspaper the other day about a man who was in court accused of having raped a 7 year old boy repeatedly over a number of years.

This has not caught the attention of the media or the public. I wonder why!

I agree with jingl that the judge was unprofessional and I think MC has been made an example of.

They were not stupid jingl, but young and vulnerable. One girl was 15 and he was nearly 40 (if my maths is right). The girl abroad was 12. He couldn't be charged with that offence because it happened abroad but the judge made it clear that he was convinced it had happened. If you read the judgement I don't see how you can argue that the sentences were too long, or that the judge was unprofessional in his remarks.

Going over old ground now, Jingle. Dismissing the harm done to these victims of sexual abuse, one of whom became suicidal, says more about you than them. Have some compassion.

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Ask the jury? They were convinced.

But how reliable was the evidence?

Too harsh? The judge made it clear in his remarks that the offences were sentenced as they would have been at the time they were committed. If they had been committed more recently some of them would have been judged as rape for which the sentence would have been ten years for each offence. This is made perfectly clear in the second paragraph of the sentencing remarks:

www.judiciary.gov.uk/Resources/JCO/Documents/Judgments/sentencing-remarks-hhj-leonard-r-v-clifford.pdf

They're sex offenders, and registered as such for life now. The Victims' Charter is taken into account so convicted sexual predators are monitored to ensure that, if they do further harm to their victims, it is noted and challenged by staff working with them, and the multi-agency panel that oversees them after release. Doesn't matter what age they are - they are still capable of inflicting harm in different ways.