Max Clifford

I think the sentence was too harsh. People get less for killing people.

How can that judge know what really happened? Did any of the girls physically try to fight him off? Is here any real evidence of whether it actually happened or not?

And I don't this his arrogance in court should have been taken into account in the sentencing, as it so obviously was. That was not part of the crimes he was being tried for. And for the judge to comment on what happened outside the court with the journalist was totally unnecessary and out of order.I think there was a lot of personal feeling on the judge's part. Not good.

I agree entirely. I am also uncomfortable that the CPS really needed this conviction.

Not only that, I find it difficult to understand that a woman who was so traumatised and humiliated by what happened to her all those years ago should now agree to have all the gory details in the Newspapers (along with her picture on the front page).

The judge's reasoning, attitude of the offender towards his offences and victims, and overall summary are used to take forward the prisoner's sentence plan. Prison and probation staff are required to go back to the conviction and sentence comments and will often be asked to give ongoing feedback on the progress of the prisoner to the sentencing judge. When it comes to parole time, the intentions of the sentence and expected treatment and rehabilitation will be assessed by the parole board. Therefore, those comments by the judge are entirely relevant - if they are seen as misguided or unfair, he can use the comments in his appeal.

All that just doesn't seem relevant in this case. He is hardly likely to come out of prison and start re-offending. And how can we be sure the judge's obvious personal feelings towards the man did n't influence the sentence? I think the judge was unprofessional.

I think that the Judge has made it plain that who ever you are you are not above the law specially the such as MC with his attitude and I am sure I have read of older people coming out of prison and re-offending jings there was a story just a week or so ago about an 85yr old man being charged after a lifetime of molestation to youngsters but I'm not sure of the details so won't comment.

He was probably a paedophile Glamma. Different thing.

They're sex offenders, and registered as such for life now. The Victims' Charter is taken into account so convicted sexual predators are monitored to ensure that, if they do further harm to their victims, it is noted and challenged by staff working with them, and the multi-agency panel that oversees them after release. Doesn't matter what age they are - they are still capable of inflicting harm in different ways.

Too harsh? The judge made it clear in his remarks that the offences were sentenced as they would have been at the time they were committed. If they had been committed more recently some of them would have been judged as rape for which the sentence would have been ten years for each offence. This is made perfectly clear in the second paragraph of the sentencing remarks:

www.judiciary.gov.uk/Resources/JCO/Documents/Judgments/sentencing-remarks-hhj-leonard-r-v-clifford.pdf

But how reliable was the evidence?

Ask the jury? They were convinced.

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Going over old ground now, Jingle. Dismissing the harm done to these victims of sexual abuse, one of whom became suicidal, says more about you than them. Have some compassion.

They were not stupid jingl, but young and vulnerable. One girl was 15 and he was nearly 40 (if my maths is right). The girl abroad was 12. He couldn't be charged with that offence because it happened abroad but the judge made it clear that he was convinced it had happened. If you read the judgement I don't see how you can argue that the sentences were too long, or that the judge was unprofessional in his remarks.

There was a tiny bit of news tucked away in the corner of my newspaper the other day about a man who was in court accused of having raped a 7 year old boy repeatedly over a number of years.

This has not caught the attention of the media or the public. I wonder why!

I agree with jingl that the judge was unprofessional and I think MC has been made an example of.

Doubtless there will be an appeal. Most of us are not qualified to pontificate. Which is where I will bow out of this fruitless discussion.

I personally think that if this man was not so full of his own importance the sentence would not have been as long as it is,that is not to think that the key should be thrown away for offences like this.

I do feel for his daughter She does look devoted to him.

glamma You have actually hit the nail on the head.

Don't court cases like these come down to one person's word against another? After so many years have passed there never seems to be any corroborative evidence - at least none is reported. One of them has to be telling untruths.

I got the distinct impression that the judge in this case actively disliked Clifford and let that colour his comments. He didn't sound very impartial to me.

petallus Why shouldn't this woman tell her story of what happened to her all those years ago? Bravo, I say!
It says to me that she's no longer an invisible victim, but a mature woman who is, finally, seen and believed. She had a choice to do so or not, and made her decision.

Interesting to hear all these comments. Jingles, you sound like an attention seeker to me, but of course I am only going by your behaviour on this thread.

Of course his daughter can be devoted to him and why shouldn't she be? I feel sorry for her too but that is not viewing his proven behaviour in an impartial manner.

He did a great deal of charity work too but that does not excuse or mitigate the crimes of which he has been convicted.

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Lorriane I prefer "opinionated"

Oh - and his wife has apparently lost her devotion to him somewhere along the way. So what does that say (if indeed anything at all).

Lorianne we usually try to avoid making personal derogatory comments about other posters!