Immigration: the reality

Sorry, that should have been 'there are lots of free Welsh classes available in North Wales!

Jess, there are lots of free Welsh classes in North Wales.

I thought English classes were free to immigrants (and anyone else) in the UK, but I may be wrong.

I know at one time in MK there were lots of people who wanted to enrol on english classes but very few classes available. And they may be quite expensive. I am trying to learn welsh as i live in a bilingual community. Not easy.

I know that Camaron and Osbourne speak French. Clegg speaks about five languages and Hunt speaks Mandarin.

I'm not sure if people have worries over so many immigrants being here has to do with them not speaking English though? It is helpful for the immigrants themselves of course, to understand and be able to compete for jobs. I think it's the sheer numbers that cause the problems, rather than anything else.Yes, it must be very hard, when you are working all day, but that's what immigrants from Eastern Europe did in the USA in the past, they went to evening classes.

I'm not sure you're correct in your assumption that 'almost no (UK) politicians can speak a word of any other language', MargaretX. At least giving immigrants a time-scale to learn English would give an incentive to those who wouldn't otherwise bother - and there are some!

I wonder if all those posters who state facts about the immigrants not learning English have any idea how difficult it is when you're tired and hungry, worried or over worked to learn a new language?
It takes other people who are living comfortably a long time to learn a language , and they have the advantage of having someone to teach them.

The Uk must be the only country where almost no poliiticians can speak a word of any other language, and yet they too expect the poor immigrant to learn it - in a year which is no time at all and only children can do it.

petallus, I am sure there must be some who slip under the radar over in Australia as well, but as far as my farming family is concerned (and anyone else I have met in their farming community) everything is done strictly by the rules, and the living accommodation is kept decent and clean for the workers.
Apparently, casual workers from overseas can re-claim their superannuation when they leave the country.

However, their food prices have gone up tremendously over the last few years.

But wouldn't the EU call it 'protectionism' and start fining us even more than they already do...?

rosequartz I wish we had that system here!

indeed. Same here.

petallus, capitalism doesn't always work like that.
In Australia seasonal farm workers are paid well, they do pay a small rent (which goes towards the upkeep of the accommodation in many cases, although there are some unscrupulous owners). A tight control has to be kept on all the finances and books are scrupulously kept; farmers have to pay into pension funds as well for their seasonal workers and obviously tax is paid to the Government.
Of course, Australian food prices are higher than here in the UK. Even though a lot of food is still imported into the UK (subsidised by overseas governments in many cases) it is still cheaper than prices paid for fresh produce in Australia, which is mostly home-grown.

We either pay decent living wages to workers and have to pay more for our food or keep demanding cheap food resulting in wages having to be kept low.

Yes anyone living locally, paying a rent, a mortgage would most likely really struggle and might well be better off staying on benefits.

Yes, penquin I have heard that is what happens.

It's immoral but it's capitalism.

What does annoy me, though, is when other people who are only vaguely aware of the complexities of the situation criticise British workers for being lazy.

Sorry there are a lot of oftens in that last post!

Seasonal farm work is often cash in hand, with a percentage often taken out for board, lodgings and often the end result is way below the minimum wage.

It could well be janerowena - whever I see, or hear of, someone like that, it always brings the thought: there but for the grace of God go I ...

In ex's case, lack of self-esteem. He started off needing a drink to get himself through social situations and found that when he was drunk people found him funny and he could tell a joke well. He thought he needed it to be that funny carefree person. Maybe it was the same for that person.

Do you know why the alcoholic killed himself?

Alcoholism is usually a symptom of something else; very sad.

I do wonder if rates of pay have anything to do with the situation. - I'm sure it does petallus Many years ago, I was chatting with a joiner who runs his own joinery compnay near where I live and he was bemoaning the fact that his son had decided not to join his firm and train up but wanted to go into the RAF instead. 'I just don't understand him passing up a good opportunity to learn a needed skill and inherit a business'. He then went on to say that he was struggling to attract apprentices in general. I asked him why that was and he said he didn't know. Chatting further, it turned out he was only offering pay of £2.50ph! No wonder he couldn't get any takers and I'm sure he's not the only employer that tries that on - they want to get as much as possible for as little as possible.

Why her dogs chose my lawn, I have no idea.

His mother was a wreck for ages afterwards. I have mentioned her on here before, I ;et he get away with her dogs pooing on my front lawn every day because she would walk past here with her head bowed for almost two years, until then she was very sprightly and was the go-to dog-sitter for holidaymakers.

It is rumoured that she felt responsible because she refused to allow her son to come home, she couldn't cope when he was drunk.

janerowena it is sad that two people committed suicide, supposedly because they could not find work. It makes you realise how desperate people can get when they cannot find jobs.

Do you know why the alcoholic killed himself?

I can see that British workers would find it difficult to take seasonal work. If you come off or reduce your benefits it takes weeks to get back on/get them increased again.

I do wonder if rates of pay have anything to do with the situation. I am guessing that gangmasters supply comparatively cheap labour.

JessM friends of mine own a hop farm in Kent, and say that they could no longer get workers to come down from London, the children of the old families had decided that Spain was preferable. After that they went on to students, which was great, but gradually as polys became universities most of the universities changed the length of their terms, they start earlier than mid-October for most now so that is too early for hop-harvesting as most of the students have to get back before the harvest is over. So, enter the gangmasters with their mixed nationalities. In fact their remaining regular workers are mainly Asian women bussed down from London every year to twiddle the hops around the poles to help them to grow in the right direction. They have a great time with their youngest children, apparently - but no brits are willing to do the work.

A couple of the big farms around here have Polish farm managers, they are a part of the local smart social scene as any farmer would be.
We have had only three suicides locally since I have been here, one British, one Lithuanian and one Polish, all in the river running through Thetford. The Brit was the alcoholic son of a lady from my village, the other two were depressed because they couldn't find work and didn't want to go home.