Rolf Harris

It is an awful situation that we allow someone's celebrity status to blind us to their true personality. I am as guilty as the next in sometimes not questioning a person's public image and taking it all on face value.

Hopefully after this spate of prosecutions future 'rumour' will not be ignored and those abused will feel stronger to speak out.

It can work in the opposite direction too. If an actor always plays nasty characters, he can find that people's image of him as a person is tinged with his performances. They know that he is not the characters he plays, but some of it rubs off. So when a celebrity with a jolly child-friendly public persona turns out to be not so child-friendly at all, it comes as a shock.

Yes, you are right Elegran you hear of actors being abused in the street because of what they have 'done' on TV!

My cynicism has come with age! I used to think famous people were what they seemed.

Further to When 's comment I think things are getting a lot worse with the internet. As she says many men think about things but make no attempt to carry them out. I expect a lot of us have sometimes wondered about odd sexual practices, but never got further than the thought. Nowadays a thought can be looked at on the internet, contact can be made with others with the same interests, and suddenly the unthinkable becomes not only possible but acceptable. And, once you've tried reading about it and watching, it why not go out and try it. I'm sure that if my father had nurtured any ideas about deviant sex he wouldn't have had a clue how to go about it and would have gone back to his model planes.

Glad you enjoyed Wicken Fen, Tegan We used to go there a lot when DH was on the management committee in the early nineties.

Did you see the Konik ponies?

I have to agree with KatyK we do not know these people and sadly many people think they do - it is just so worrying that how many more are out there?

There's some foundation to what you say, Deedaa as continual exposure to internet porn can distort sexual appetite and arousal to disturbing images, which can potentially impact on relationships. Most of us can distinguish between fantasy and reality and know how to put the brakes on.

There's a simple model that was devised to help people understand how sex offenders operate - they are sexually aroused to, and emotionally congruent with, children. They tell themselves that children want sexual contact with them, get themselves into positions of power or trust, isolate the children from their carers or protectors, and overcome the child's resistance with persuasion, bribes, threats (grooming). But that doesn't explain how they became sex offenders in the first place - there are many theories about that, such as being abused themselves, not receiving guidance to steer them away from the wrong sexual behaviour or views, even speculation about there being a gene that could be switched on - all can be overridden by a combination of education, control, self-regulation, anti-libidinal drugs, legal deterrents and other barriers. Professionals who have worked with sex offenders know this model well and it is incorporated into assessments, investigations and treatment.

Rolf Harris didn't get to be a sex offender out of the blue. I wonder what experiences he had that influenced how he viewed children.

I agree with KatyK, what we see is a public persona, an act. We can enjoy an act and think we know the person themselves but we never do unless we meet them personally.
Then there is the halo effect of fame which makes it hard to believe anything bad of someone we admire.
Smoke and mirrors.

It seems that many people who find fame, fortune and the consequent adoration of young girls find it difficult to maintain the normal moral standards the rest of us live by and take advantage of their position.

I wonder who's next?

It isn't just sex offenders who can fool you either. One of my friends at college married a lovely boy she met there -well brought up, middle class, very quiet and apparently her soul mate. We were all amazed when she left him some years later because of his violence. None of us would ever have imagined him hitting her, but her own father had been quite violent and used to thrash the children for the slightest thing and it makes you wonder if she and the boy recognised something in each other.

It is awful that the women who came forward have had to live with these memories for so long, and right that they have finally got justice.

It is sad that Rolf Harris's wife and daughter are now living through what must seem like a never-ending nightmare.

This, and the other recent high profile cases are the ones we hear about, but such crimes are being perpetrated every day (and many such assaults are not even reported).

My view is that, although these people's crimes are monstrous, it is not enough to simply label them "evil", punish them and do nothing else.

It seems to me that society's response to sexual crime is mainly reactive. Very little research appears to be done to try and find out what leads people to develop sexually predatory and violent/coercive behaviour towards other (particularly young) people. Is it something innately defective within the individual, something about their early lives that warps them sexually, or a combination of these and other things?. Perhaps if we knew what factors lead to a higher risk of this sort of aberrant behaviour, there would be more chance of preventing it.

But you could say that about society's reaction to all crime - it's reactive, not enough research into its causes. As for hs wife and daughter - I'll need to be a bit more convinced that they didn't know at least some of what was going on before I feel it's sad for them - his daughter certainly knew something about her friend. They've enjoyed a life of plenty for decades whilst his victims suffered.

Whilst feeling sorry for his wife who seems frail, I do wonder if she really had no suspicions.

His daughter must be devastated - I know my daughter's would be if it was their much loved father!

I wonder too, and also his daughter must have thought he was capable because she asked her friend if Rolf had abused her. This was when they were on holiday as young girls. I think in these cases blind eyes are turned considerably. I do feel sorry for his wife, she does look very frail and although she may have had suspicions it must be a great shock it all coming out now.

I have often wondered whether those who abuse children and young girls do it not just for sexual gratification but also because they can dominate them. Despite RH being a successful entertainer he may have felt inadequate in some way and his abuse was the result of his wanting to feel superior. RH appeared to be confident and sure of himself but that could have been part of his "act". Although, of course, it could just be that he did it because he could get away with it.

Whilst I do feel sorry for his wife and daughter, you can't help wondering if they had their suspicions, presumably he was away a lot working so they may not have realised what he was doing, although the fact that he abused his daughter's friend means he was doing this even at home.

Please take a look at websites like NOTA (National Organiation for Treatment of Abusers) and its American counterpart ATSA (Assioiation for the Treatment of Sexual Abusers) and NSPCC where you will see reference to lots of research, academic papers, upcoming conferences, books, treatment manuals, specialist areas like child on child abuse, adolescent sex offenders and much, much more. This work has been going on for many decades and the UK is one of the leaders in understanding, preventing, assessing and treating sex offenders. We collaborate with this work around the world.

Wives and daughters are not always suspicious that child abuse is being perpetrated, although they might suspect infidelity or disapprove of the man's sexist, violent or other behaviour. Some wives deny anything could have happened, even when they are given details. As on here, there is a mixed response, especially when we learn that a child has been harmed - what does that say about us as individuals and as a society that we 'let' this happen? What does it say about a wife, if she has chosen to live with a man who she now knows has sexually abused children? The wives and families I have met range from being ready to murder him, to staying loyal but not condoning what he did, to outright collusion to help him escape conviction. Just like many other crimes, opinions differ.

When you obviously have a great deal of professional experience with abusive offenders, and often shed light on these discussions. What was your role, if it's not intrusive to ask?

I was a specialist probation officer, assessing and treating sex offenders and training workers from all involved agencies for much of my career, and undertook private work as a psychologist associate with a forensic/clinical psychologist who was contracted by various social services depts around the north to train their staff or assess Cafcass referrals. Very interesting, but stressful work.

Isn't it strange how many women would agree with the above comments regarding an intuitive dislike for Saville, Hall and Clifford - regardless of the media image they put forward.

I didn't want it to be true about Rolf Harris as both of my children loved watching him on tv and he seemed such a personable character.

Thanks When for your contributions to this thread. Yes, the UK has a good reputation in research, assessments and treatment of sex offenders. We need that work to continue, alongside further investment in services for their victims. I include in this, the wives, children, family/friends of men who betray the love and trust invested in them.

I hope that the conviction of Rolf Harris will help people who haven't worked in this area, to accept that sex offenders rarely stand out from the crowd. It may also nudge those people who claim that there is a celebrity witch hunt, or that "they're only in it for the compensation". I'm not disputing that false allegations can be made, but my experience is that they are very quickly identified by police/other professionals, as exactly that.

I am still not convinced of his guilt an am not a fan

As long as the jury were given more than enough evidence to confidently convict, Annie, most people will be ok with it.

I think we feel let down by Rolf Harris because he didn't seem overtly "creepy" like Jimmy Saville. I always liked Rolf and his silly songs and clever paintings - I feel a real loss.

He's obviously guilty of the charges, but there has to be a small amount of sorrow for the man when a past catched up at such a vulnerable old age. (I know that will get GNrs shrieking in horror, but still)

He's not a nazi war criminal. He hasn't committed unspeakable cruelties on whole nations.

Having said that, I never have liked him, and I wonder what they will do with the official portrait of the queen.