Rolf Harris

A consultant gastroenterologist once fondled my breasts whilst examining my abdomen. I said nothing. There was no chaperone; no-one would have believed me. He was a respected specialist at a renowned teaching hospital. I fully understand why some people find it hard to speak out.

It's been reported today that Rolf Harris was shown round one of the special hospitals by Jimmy Savile. A woman in her 60s has come forward with specific details, and mentions that they both appeared on a ward just as girls were being undressed. This link to JS is sickening.

Mark Williams-Thomas spoke eloquently on This Morning earlier today. His patient explanation of the various reasons for victims of abuse holding back from complaining until they are much older, or see a risk of another person being abused, made me feel ashamed of living in a society where the vulnerable and powerless are not listened to or believed, then when they do manage to say enough to demonstrate that charges can be brought, they are criticised and made to feel they are responsible, not the perpetrator who harmed them. Some sexual attacks contain cruel and embarrassing acts which victims will hold back from disclosing, they are so traumatised and humiliated by what was done to them.

To hear accusations of compo claiming or jumping on the bandwagon is so far off the mark, those criticisers would be horrified if they saw evidence of what actually happened. I hope they never have to - a common comment from people who do learn what happened is 'once you know, you can't unknow.' An eminent professor who has led the field in this line of work, and with psychopaths - Herschel Prinz - advises that we 'imagine the unimaginable.' Tragically, too many sex offenders commit unimaginable acts on children.

Have you been marked for life *Mishap?

Adult women, those who are not the vulnerable on psych hospital wards can, and should, get themselves out of the way of abuse. Not go back for more as some seem to do. But I have not been following it as closely as some of you obviously have.

I find it amazing that so many women of our generation are making excuses for people like Rolf Harris by saying it was a different culture then , and women just put up with groping. I'm sure that if anyone's young granddaughter came home and told them where a disgusting creep had inserted his fingers, they might think differently. I'm not going to apologise for being blunt.

We certainly dont know the gruesome details that the jury had to listen to, and for that I am thankful. I find it unbelievable that some posters on this forum would find it acceptable if someone abused their 7 year old granddaughter, or their troubled teenager, or is it ok if it is someone else's grandchild or daughter?

Adult women come in all types and sizes of emotional strength - and the circumstances in which they are abused vary enormously. However, one theme is that someone with power/ good standing ( Mishaps example)/fame will be much less likely to be reported and they exploit that. But hey oh sisters, just get out of the way of abuse and all will be well.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

That's the point jings some of them do know it all, or certainly a damn sight more than you do!

Atqui is right to be blunt.Any doubt annie, just ask yourself: Does my OH stick his hand in little girls' knickers?Does my son thrust his tongue down the throat of young girls? The answer is, hopefully NO, NO, NO

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

How exactly Lona do you know how much I know about this?

I think there's a differece between the experiences most of us have had of 'dirty old men' and the knowledge that several people on here have that comes from working in child protection [most of which they aren't allowed to talk about].

No one on these forums know about others' past experiences. That's why threads should n't deteriorate into brickbat throwing when someone else posts a different viewpoint.

Tegan have it your way. I really don't care for Gransnet any more.

Different viewpoints should be acknowledged without the brickbats as you say, Jingle.

Denying that harm has been done, or running down the victims of sexual abuse who have the courage to come forward, no matter what their motivation, is cruel. No child asks to be abused, and no woman who could escape a sexual attack will stay to let it happen again and again if she felt she could stop it. Even today, some women are powerless to get away from abuse. The hold that many sex offenders have over the people they harm is unbelievable to those of us who are assertive and know how to get help.

When offering views and opinions on such a sensitive subject as the sexual abuse of children and young people, great care needs to be taken. It's an emotive subject, and can arouse strong feelings, particularly for anyone reading it who has experienced sexual abuse.

You are quite right Jingle - No one on here can fully know the life experiences of others. Being respectful of other's viewpoints is important.

An uncle took my sister and I for a walk in Epping Forest. He pulled me behind a bush and flung his arms around me and tried to kiss me. I managed to shove him away and we walked home , my sister worrying because I lagged so far behind and she thought I would get lost. When we got home I told my Mother; she laughed and said,'' Well, he's your uncle isn't he!'' And that was that. Perhaps people did speak up about Rolf Harris and got a similar answer.

Thanks Hunt, brave post. Those of us who have worked with sexual abuse may also have personal experience, which we choose not to share on a public forum. To dismiss us as not really understanding just isn't on.

The "dirty old men" that many of us encountered at some time in our lives were not all identical. some were dirtier than others, and some of us reacted more violently to the experience than others.

Unlike some of those posting on here, i have not worked with offenders or victims, and I have never been subjected to more than a mild touch-up, and certainly not molestation at an early age, but knowing the vast differences in personalities between one person and anlother, I can see that the effect on different children would vary a lot.

For instance, I can imagine one reaction being that a child could grow up to have a strong resistance to any kind of controlling authority, to anyone trying to impose their will on them and shape them to a persona they did not choose for themselves. I can imagine them flouting acknowledged patterns of behaviour, and deliberately setting out to test the boundaries of good taste. I can imagine them being disgusted with themselves sometimes, but unable to change themselves, and falling into depression.

I can envisage the kind of posts that such a person would send to a site like Gransnet, confrontational and antagonising at times, even toward those who had shown themselves to be "for" them , not "against" them, if they gave the impression of being at all patronising.

In other words, the experience has an effect, even though it is not the one normally thought of.

Been reading it in daily mail today, what a nasty filthy bastard needs his bits cut off with a blunt knife.

Elegran An insightful post. This is why I dislike the term 'victim' so much. Many children and young people do respond to their experiences with strength, individuality and a desire to never toe the line again. It's makes for difficult and challenging work, not least for those abused. I am and was such a one, and later worked in child protection.

The depth of violence, depravity and intrusion cannot be underestimated. A quick touch up by a dirty old man would be considered a caress by some.

Elegran love the psycho-babble!

Finnochio Your reaction was to help alleviate the effect on others, and to try to bring home to the abusers just what they have stored up for the future of those they abuse. Well done.

I too am not saying "victims" because that implies that every child/young person abused is destroyed by the process. They are not, some become stronger, but there is a price to pay for that strength.

I think it depends on the age of the child. A child too young to know what was happening but simply knows that it hurts, is going to be much less damaged than an older child who knows exactly what is happening.

OMG! I'm not condoning it! Please don't read that post in the wrong way.

I'm getting off here.

I take your point about using the word 'victim' ffinochio. I keep searching for a word that encompasses those people who have been irreparably harmed and need recognition from both public and the criminal justice system during the course of prosecution, as too many comments are made that they ought to let it go, it wasn't that bad, why bring it up years later..........

You know what I'm on about.