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Sex Attacker's Attacker Is Not Charged

(101 Posts)
HollyDaze Sun 20-Jul-14 14:33:15

'A Florida police chief says he has no problem with a dad who severely beat up a man he claims to have caught sexually assaulting his 11-year-old son.

Mike Chitwood said the father of the alleged victim did what any father would do, and would not face charges.

Daytona Beach police were called by the man on Friday - he reported he had come home to find his son being assaulted.

He could be heard telling the police operator he had left the attacker "nice and knocked out" and "in a puddle of blood" on the floor.

Officers arrived to find the alleged abuser, 18-year-old Raymond Frolander, unconscious.

Frolander was taken to the hospital and then arrested.

Chief Chitwood said Frolander admitted to sexually abusing the boy for the past three years.

And he said the father would not be charged, because he was protecting his son as a crime was being committed.

"I think the father did what any father wanted to do," he said.'

(Advance warning: not a nice photo on the site.)

Any thoughts?

There's a fair few British people calling for Chief Chitwood to come to the UK!

GrannyTwice Sun 20-Jul-14 15:09:48

The father's behaviour can be understandable without it being acceptable. America has a long and dishonourable tradition of lynch mob behaviour and taking the law into your own hands will inevitably lead to situations where innocent people ( disproportionately black) will be unjustly killed and injured. We have due process precisely because as individuals our emotions could take over and injustice result. It's a similar issue about using reasonable force if your house is broken into whilst you are there.

GrannyTwice Sun 20-Jul-14 15:11:36

The Trayvon Martin shooting happened in Florida

wondergran Sun 20-Jul-14 17:42:38

I honest can't blame this guy for doing what he did. If this guy, who is only 18, is abusing young children already then he is monster in the making. Perhaps it's a pity that he didn't detach him from his tackle for the good of mankind.

Coolgran65 Sun 20-Jul-14 17:45:44

I hope that I am a lady in the nicest sense of the word. I try to be fair, try not to hurt folk's feelings. Will do what I can to help where possible.

I saw this article on the news and listened to the father's telephone call to the emergency services.

Lady or not..... if I had come across the same situation, it would have taken a quare big fellow to have kept me off the abuser. Fear of being arrested/charged/hurt would have been down my priority list.

Mamma lioness will protect her cub.....

I am not saying that my actions would be correct, but I know from my heart that I would in there......

Nonu Sun 20-Jul-14 17:52:30

I agree with Wonder & * Cool*.

Surely when we see our young being harmed , act first , think later!!


Nonu Sun 20-Jul-14 18:18:03

granny the Trayvon case was entirely different, and anyway was has both cases being in Florida got to do with anything ?

Elegran Sun 20-Jul-14 18:31:46

If the young man was actually assaulting the boy, then the father was defending his son. He is allowed to use "reasonable force" to do this. Chief Chitwell seems to have ruled that leaving him unconscious is reasonable defensive force, as he came upon him in the act.

I think most people would use quite a lot of force in the circumstances. Perhaps the young man will learn something useful from this instant result of his actions. I hope that he also gets suitable treatment.

GrannyTwice Sun 20-Jul-14 18:40:21

But the issue in this case is not about reasonable force but that the police chief is saying that he did what any father would do - ie beat him very badly. If a lot of force had been needed to stop the attack, that is one thing, but if the beating was a punishment, that is another.

GrannyTwice Sun 20-Jul-14 18:43:16

And Nonu - the point I was trying to make was that once it's acceptable for people to take the law into their own hands, you get cases like Trayvons where the neighbourhood watch guy acted as judge, jury and executioner. Suppose a father came home and found his daughter having sex and thought she was being raped?

Nonu Sun 20-Jul-14 19:07:14

But the child had been subjected to this since he was 8 years old !!

The father comes in and sees what is happening so very naturally goes ballistic, so if he^ punishes^ him all well and good to me .

Obvoiusly Chief Chitwood thinks the same !!

May I ask what you, the same situation would have done ?

Don"t answer if you don"t want to I will understand !

Iam64 Sun 20-Jul-14 19:08:39

I have sympathy with the decision not to charge the father. He seems to have acted in rage, understandable if we have a correct picture of events. I have no sympathy, or understanding with the comment that the decision was made as the father acted as any father would have done. That way, the history of vigilantism in the States is supported

Iam64 Sun 20-Jul-14 19:09:43

sorry noun, x posts

Nonu Sun 20-Jul-14 19:15:13

I really don"t think it is anything to do with vigilantism, I think it was an act of pure rage on seeing what that sicko was doing to his son .

And had been doing for three long years !!

Ana Sun 20-Jul-14 19:26:07

It isn't really a question of what any of us (or any parent) would do, though, is it Nonu? It's whether such actions should be chargeable or not, and I'd say each case should be judged on its own merit, which is probably the case more often than not - certainly in this country.

petallus Sun 20-Jul-14 19:36:04

When the boy's father beat up the young man, did he know at the time that the abuse had been going on for three years?

Aka Sun 20-Jul-14 20:00:46

If I'd walked into this situation I'd have done exactly the same. If I happened to have my secateurs or my pinking shears handy I'd probably have been facing a very serious charge.

rosequartz Sun 20-Jul-14 20:04:51

I agree, Aka.

Penstemmon Sun 20-Jul-14 20:08:13

I can understand the father's fury absolutely. I do not agree that he should not be cautioned /sanctioned for taking the law into his own hands as it appears he used more than reasonable force to stop the attack.

Once society goes down that route it opens the door to all kinds of crazy vigilante actions happening and inevitably innocent people being hurt/killed. There was a case in Bristol recently where a group of men killed someone they thought was a paedophile. The victim was not.

Civilised societies have an open court system to ensure justice is done according to the law, not vengeance.

annodomini Sun 20-Jul-14 20:11:36

The child revealed on interview that the abuse had been going on since he was 8. The abuser was 'almost like a family member'. Presumably the father had no idea about it up to the moment of the attack.

Penstemmon Sun 20-Jul-14 20:12:03

Also if this abuse had been going on since the attacker was 15 I suspect there is a strong possibility he may well have been an abused child. When does your sympathy for an abused child stop /start?

I felt like that when the tragic murder of Jamie Bulger ocurred. The two boys were villified. I was sad for the loss of all three children's lives.

rosequartz Sun 20-Jul-14 20:18:00

The two perpetrators have gone on to have lives that Jamie was denied, Penstemmon. One has messed it all up, the other, we presume, has perhaps gone on to live a better life.

I am only sad for Jamie's parents and wider family.

Aka Sun 20-Jul-14 20:20:48

I don't think this is a case of 'society going down that route' at all. It was simply a case of a father reacting to a terrible situation. That is completely different from the group of men, held up as an example, who actively sought out someone to exact vengeance albeit wrongly.

However there is a case to be made that there is too much attention paid to the 'rights' of the criminal and not enough to the 'rights' of the victim and their family.

rosequartz Sun 20-Jul-14 20:25:51

Again spot-on, Aka.

If it had been my child, or my grandchild, they would be lucky to still be alive if I caught them at it. Sorry, but that is true. If I was imprisoned, so be it.

Penstemmon Sun 20-Jul-14 20:40:48

rose the perpetrators were young children who had been neglected and abused.
I can have empathy for them and still feel huge sympathy for the family of the murdered child. I am not saying I think the perpetrators should not have been punished.

I find it difficult to appreciate the thinking of the people who say they would personally castrate people, kick a person's heads in etc. I do understand anger /fury but not that next step.