Anti-Jewish double standards

I totally agree Elegran, that would have been an excellent idea, but I'm not sure that that that is the agenda for some!!!!

Glasgow would have done better to fly BOTH flags side to side, as a symbol of how Israelis and Palestinians need to find a way to live side by side.

This is all getting too complicated for me! All I can see is that we are where we are and arguing about who lived where under which Imperial power way back when isn't going to solve the problem in the here and now. As far as I can see, after centuries of persecution the Jewish people needed a home land where they could feel safe. they seem to regard that area of the Middle East to be where they originated from; Historically of course that is arguable, but now in the situation as it is, then a homeland for BOTH Israeli's and Palestinians to live alongside each other in peace is surely the only answer. I know about past injustices, and of course people feel very strongly about these, but nothing will alter the past, so surely the only way forward is to look forward and not backwards, build a future and not let the past (that no one can alter) blight what could be a peaceful prosperous future.

It doesn't matter what people were known as "arabs", "palestinians" or whatever - or which imperial power ruled that part of the world. The fact remains that there were people there quietly getting on with farming their land until some of it was given to Zionists who then proceeded to take a lot more of it by force.
Do you remember the book and film of Exodus that came out in 1960 which, in retrospect, was a fine bit of Zionist propaganda of its time? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus_(1960_film)

Another bit of optional reading for a wet day: Daniel Deronda by George Elliot, which highlights the roots of Zionism in 19th century anti-semitism. The author would be very interested to see what has happened since her death I am sure.

It's for everybody Penn as you will already know your ancestors were under Turkish rule before 1920 and the subsequent British role until 1948.

Aka I hope that post was not fo my benefit. As my grandmother and her family predate 1920 and have a family tree going back many generations in Nazareth & Acre I already have a good understanding of the Palestinian history & culture.

A VERY brief history of Palestine 1918 - 1948

The map is especially interesting.

There seem to be some who think that Palestine belonged solely to the Arabs before the state of Israel was declared. In fact the entires area was administered by Great Britain under a mandate from 1920 after the Turks (who held the land) were defeated after WW1.

To understand the current situation I'll post a link to a brief history of Palestine.

dorsetpentt Palestine was a well managed agricultural area before it was called Israel. My grandmother's family lost orange and olive groves to Zionists. No compensation. My family were Christian Palestinians. Their home on Mt Carmel was taken too.

I don't think it was a virtual desert either. it may not have been exporting veg to UK supermarkets but it must have been similar to Greece, Malta and Cyprus. There was also a myth that nobody was living there.
Interesting isn't it that Pakistani madrasa schools are always getting criticised for providing narrow education and producing ill-educated extremists.
Yet the very civilised state of Israel has many schools for boys in which they only get to study the Torah and are consequently only equipped to work as rabbis and religious scholars when they leave. No maths, no science, no computers, no nothing but religion. Recently their exemption from army call up has been removed but the Israeli army are apparently not that enthusiastic about taking in these ill educated recruits.

I am not at all sure that before Israel the area was a virtual desert. I recently visited the West Bank with a Palestinian Christian guide - not at all sympathetic to the Palestinian Authority. He pointed out areas that had obviously been farmed at one time but which now did not have enough water because Israeli law permits Israeli citizens to drill deeper and extract more water than Palestinian citizens.

Agus A number of Jewish Scots worried about Israel stirring up anti-Semitism and would support flying a Palestinian flag ? 'you're having a laugh'. They may be concerned at Israel's actions but would not support flying a flag of people who want to wipe out all Jews - that is what Hamas want, to kill all Jews then start on Christians. What do you think the U.S.is doing in Iraq , it's trying to help those poor Christians that are in terrible danger. I feel Terribull has written quite a bit of sense .However, Jews have always for millennia looked upon Israel as their ancestral home - hence the phrase at Passover 'next year in Israel'. In a collective fit of shame Europe did carve up what was known as Palestine and that has caused a lot of today's problems. Remember, before it was Israel it was a virtual desert. Now it's almost a green and pleasant land with an excellent government and infrastructure and has inherited a lot of the Jewish intelligentsia that was kicked out of Europe and Russia - those that were left at any rate. I'm getting so het up and angry with some of these views I'm coming off this thread for a while.

Israel seems to have exercised its right to defend itself quite effectively as they have a high tech defence system which was dealing with Hammas rockets quite effectively.
The trouble is they have consistently squandered their fund of tolerance and goodwill with the rest of the world by their appalling behaviour, exercising what they think it their right - to keep taking more and more land from the Palestinians. The world has sat and watched. No wonder Putin thought it was OK to take over Crimea.
In the process they have run the risk of provoking anti-semitism - but has it even crossed their minds? Do they think anti-semitism is a given and will never go away and therefore it does not matter how they conduct themselves? Do they really not stop to think their actions will not rebound on Jews around the world?
It is also, I would say, inevitable that their actions will radicalise many more young Muslims and make them hate Israel. What is not to get? Is this a good way to protect their country?
Maybe the international indulgence over the last 20 years is the reason why they seem to think they have a get out of jail free card. But in fact it has a lot more to do with political donations than a love affair with Israel.
A few years ago a teacher asked someone from the Israeli embassy to join to school on the annual holocaust memorial day. There I was, a governor sitting next to our MP who had years of pro-Palestinian campaigning under her belt. What does he do? - Gets up and gives a speech about how special and chosen his people are. Wished ground would swallow me up. A small example but a telling one - indicative of the collective mindset.
Important in these troubled times to support the UK Jewish community who must be feeling pretty nervous as a result of Israeli actions.
The OP sounds like a storm in an arty teacup but I can't really be bothered to read through such a long opinion article. If people want to boycott something do it yourself - stay away from all that fresh produce we buy from Israel.

I am just talking about his support for the Palestinian people. As you see I question his thinking.

Again people blur all Arab nations. They are different as the European countries are and were when fighting each other in WW1 & WW2.

Not only Sadam.

He has a slot on Russia Today and to be honest I can find sometimes he is thoughtful but most of the time he just espouses pure bile and racism.

His heart in the right place?!!! You are having a laugh?! the man's a chancer, remember how he crawled to Sadam - dreadful man!

Terri I agree some of what you say. My father, arriving in the UK from Palestine in 1947 needed to qualify in UK law. Because of the 'old boy' network it was hard for him to get a place in chambers but he was offered a place by Joseph Yahuda, a Jewish barrister. They became good & lifelong friends and I remember going to visit Joe and his wife, when I was a child, for lunch. At that time the differences were clearly seen as political. Not all Jews were, or are, Zionists. Nowadays to be outspoken against Zionism puts you into the Islamic extremist camp by people who have poor understanding of the history and politics of the region.

With 'friends' like Galloway the Palestinians struggle harder. His heart maybe in the right place but he needs to sort his thinking.

Have just seen on the news that people are marching in Berlin (I think) in support of the Yasidi and Christian minorities suffering dreadful persecution in Iraq. I'm so pleased to see that other groups are being afforded the worlds attention! perhaps, just perhaps some good can come out of this support.

I completely sympathise with what it must feel like to be Palestinian and to lose what had been your homeland for centuries because the imperial powers at the time, acted with out any foresight as to the trouble they were unleashing for future generations when they redrew the map. In doing so upsetting the delicate ethnic and religious balance that had prevailed in those different communities.

When I was very young 18 or so, I worked for a Jewish firm in London, I remember during a discussion about Israel, bearing in mind I was young and naive, I said something along the lines of "what about the Palestinians rights?" They pounced on me like a pack of wolves and I did get an insight there and then in to what might be described as a total tunnel vision as to their view of entitlement to what they perceive as their homeland, completely overlooking the displacement of the Palestinians. In every other way, they were wonderful to work for and I felt truly nurtured by them, bearing in mind I wasn't Jewish. Having been to Catholic schools in Surrey I hadn't met anyone Jewish before and I did feel mixing with them gave me an insight into their religion and their way of life. I think my parents always fostered the idea in my head that the Jews were a supremely talented and persecuted people. I know my mum was always haunted by what had happened to them during the war and I guess subliminally she passed those feelings on to me. Catholic guilt, justified no doubt in the RC church's own persecution of them too.

I think Israel and Hamas are both to blame for the current situation in Gaza. Meanwhile here in the UK, I do not think that councils, who represent all of the people that live in their boroughs, have any right to fly Palestinian flags. George Galloway's comments in declaring his constituency an "Israel free zone" are reprehensible, he is a public servant and should not be making such partisan statements and in doing so he is inflaming public opinion against Jewish people, who may or may not support Israel's actions.

The anti Semitism that is on the march in Europe is shameful whilst many of the hate crimes, including the shootings in France and Belgium have come from the Arab population, the far right is also responsible which is what you would expect from them, and we shouldn't be surprised when we climb into bed with such reprehensible bedfellows. As for the far left joining in, they might feel the have the moral high ground, but they demonstrate are no better than their fascist counterparts.

Some of the Jewish community I have spoken to are more worried that the actions of Israel will be responsible for stirring up anti Semitic views.

Extremism in one direction breeds extremism in the other. Every "oppressor" "rebel" or "invader" killed by each side becomes a "martyr" "freedom fighter" or "gallant defender" on the other. Their deaths are avenged by what seems to the avenger to be a legitimate attack, but which then leaves another set of avengers in their turn. A vicious circle, or rather downward spiral.

I can't see any easy way of resolving the situation, or even any difficult ways that will give lasting peace.

The plight of the Palestinian nation is a very longstanding one and directly caused by the creation of the state of Israel... this is a political situation. It is not originally anything to do with the current growth of Islamist /Jihadi extremists. The worst thing for the Palestinian cause is the rise of this extremism.

As someone with Palestinian roots can I say clearly that I am not anti Jewish..I do not support any action against individual Jews/communities etc. I too worry that support for Palestine (e.g. flying the flag) is used by ultra right and Islamic extremists to fire up appalling anti-Jewish actions.

I do support any legal means to end the aggressive Zionist policies of Israel that means that the daily lives of the people in Gaza are made as difficult as possible (even before the current crisis) and families live in daily fear of IDF. I can understand how the people in Gaza voted for Hamas. When your life is so difficult and you are under embedded occupation you support whoever you feel may make life easier for you. It is not surprising that 'extremism' grows and develops given the circumstances.

Agus

I find that very difficult to believe but I will have to take your word as being honest. I would have thought the Jewish community would be very worried about the Palestinian flag being flown as it cannot be viewed as anything other than anti Israeli and that to some will be anything Jewish.

Dorset

I was a bit too timid in my post about the flag flying in Glasgow to say what I really thought so I will say I agree with your post too.

As I don't want any poster to assume they know my thoughts I will say this. Israel should not be allowed to build on any Palestinian land, end of. The UN should tell them it is not acceptable and if needs be buildings bulldozed.

Hamas should stop firing rockets into Israel and agree to a ceasefire, if they truly want to protect their children as they say.

It will never happen as Palestinians profess to hatred of all things Jewish be that the State of Israel or any Jewish person.

Israel has lost it's empathy to the extent it knows what being pushed out of your homeland means, they have had the experience after all. Israel has become a bully but does have the right, as any country does, to defend itself.

The UN is proving to be an impotent circus of useless s---s that will never agree on anything because of religion, politics and commerce.

Where does that leave us, the same old same old. What is happening as a result, the world and some people have learnt. nothing, nada, jack s--t , they are prepared to resurrect the bile and hatred of religious faiths and innocent people will always endure the inhumanity created by the aggressor and those who defend them believing they have a right to use force and murder to get their rights.

It's all way beyond sad.

Dorset Get the facts be fore you make sweeping statements. There are members of the Jewish community in Glasgow who are appalled at the actions of Israel and support the stance of their fellow Glaswegians.

I totally agree with the last two posters. Last night on Newsnight there was a Yazidi lady being interviewed. The situation these poor people find themselves in in truly dreadful and, from what she said, feel that the West (America/UK) should have acted far sooner to curb Isis - but the sad truth is that if this had happened the whole world would have accused them of warmongering, interfering in another countries affairs etc! in other words, damned if you do and damned if you don't! It's a no win situation. The UN is a complete joke (remember Bosnia!) from conception to the present day - the EU completely pathetic, and the world East of Italy(?) a complete nightmare. Where it will end God only knows.