Rotherham Child Abuse

Just listened to that, Jess.
Shocking to hear how the Child Protection expert was ordered to alter her report to the Home Office.

Missed it Jess, will put the radio on as no doubt it'll be repeated.
Eloethan, thanks for your post. One of the dangers of focussing on the ethnicity of the majority of the Rotherham abusers, is we revert to rather smug british approval of ourselves.
There is still no announcement of the replacement for Lady BS, and the investigation into a Labour Lord about historical abuse allegations, has gone silent

smug british approval of ourselves

It isn't a case of being smug, it's about recognising that our politicians may not be blameless but they are a far cry from some politicians around the world.

Does your comment mean that you don't believe that people of Pakistani heritage are British I am64? Or is it that only white British can be smug?

No noodles, of course it doesn't. Smugness isn't only confined to the white British - anyone can join in.

Iam64 you can listen again via the BBC website if you wish. www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006qj9z You can scroll through to the items you are interested in. Last time I did it was when John Humphries indulged in a positive orgy of interruption during an interview and I wanted to count the number (it was 15) before complaining

Noodles, apologies for my initial response, which was a bit tart. I hadn't meant to imply that non white British people were excluded from my anxiety about possible smugness. Like everyone else, I've found the information about the extent of abuse in Rotherham shocking. Sadly, I'm not shocked about the minimisation, denial and failure to protect young girls. In an earlier work role, I tried for several months to raise exactly the same problems in the town where I worked. Concerns would go up the management levels in health, social work, police and come back down, with various reasons not to set up the investigation we all knew was necessary. I moved on to a different agency around that time. So far as I know, the problem continued but is likely to be the subject of investigation, given the prevalence in so many towns.

Theresa May gave a very good address and answering session today in Parliament during the Child Sex Abuse Question re Rotherham.

I would say to anybody interested in the Rotherham case watch it if possible. It was on the BBC Parliament Channel. (changing to channel 131 from tomorrow for FreeView)

We can all have our views but seeing and hearing the debate and the knowledge they have actually informs, tells it how it is and does not hold back.

I think there were a few blushes from some I have seen in the past practically accusing other MP's of being racist, they were a bit more subdued today. It was good to see a little humility and instead of the 'Institution must be saved at all costs' attitude there was an acceptance that only the truth will do now.

I still come to the conclusion Fish rot from the head down and there is nothing racist in stating this particular paedophile ring is characterised as being from an Asian, Muslim group of men.

If it is not going to be talked about with an absolute frankness then we can never move forward because that is precisely the attitude that has created a hell of a lot of the problems over so many years.

Sadly more to come in different areas too.

Pogs of course it is not racist to state the facts which are that in Rotherham 'this particular paedophile ring is characterised as being from an Asian, Muslim group of men.

What is racist is when people generalise about all Asian Muslim men based on this situation, or use this fact to justify pre-existing racist attitudes. Sadly paedophile gangs have existed before this particular case and there have been exclusively White 'Christian' English 'gangs' but nobody then decided that all similar men are paedophiles etc etc.

The men are criminals and need to be punished. The girls need to be protected. Authorities need to examine how it was allowed to grow so big and become almost endemic in some places when alarms were raised early on.

The 'shock' about this particular case is not so much the ethnicity of perpetrators and victims but that it was not stopped sooner, given that it appears there were many opportunities to do so.

Penstemmon

If you read my posts you will see that I agree with your 2nd paragraph and have made similar comments, because that is a fact, probably made more references to 'groups' of paedophiles and included the church, the establishment, children's homes etc. and certainly addressed ethnicity by broadening it to Asian, White, Black' Chinese and so on.

You say in your last paragraph 'The shock about this case is not so much the ethnicity of the perpetrators etc.'. This is still trying to lesson the fact that "in this case, Rotherham' which this thread is about , the fact is there was this particular group of paedophiles who share a common background.

Example, next week there could be a thread on a paedophile ring in the church, that would no doubt be about white ethnicity. If anybody tried to say 'Yes well Asians do it too you know' I would make exactly the same comments but it would be saying, 'don't try and play a race card because this particular paedophile group are from a prodominently white, christian background, because that would also be a fact.

I hope that makes sense. Try and watch the Child Sex Abuse Question to Theresa May that took place today.

POGS did not have time to re-read all 10 pages of posts so if I have made you feel as though I misconstrued what you were saying I am sorry.

I strongly disagree however that I am lessening anything about the case. The clear message for me is that when any group/organisation or individual is thought to be 'untouchable' for whatever reason ( ethnicity {ie fear of being called racist} or celebrity or cleric in a church) it is possible for abuse to grow and continue.

Now Woolf has stepped down from leading the enquiry, Michael Mansfield has said he would like to lead it, if asked.
Unfortunately, I cannot imagine Theresa May asking him.

This is becoming an embarrassment.

For Theresa May? Time she stepped down. The problem is that Cameron would not want her on the back benches.

I think the alleged victims of this Westminster Paedophile Ring obviously have some very strong views as to who should be appointed. Would it be reasonable to ask them for some very broad guidelines about who they would trust to chair the inquiry, for instance whether they would prefer a woman?

It appears that some people in high places have been involved in the systematic abuse of young people or have prevented a proper investigation into these claims, allegedly to protect their colleagues and friends. It's hardly surprising the alleged abuse victims have no confidence in a person closely linked to the "establishment" being appointed. Surely Theresa May should have realised that?

Don't get hung up on considering any particular group more culpable with regard to child sexual abuse. This problem goes on "organised" or not in all parts of our society and always has.

There are still a lot of concerns about the possibility that paedophile rings within the higher echelons of the British establishment being involved in particular areas of the country.

I really worry that lumping enquiries about the particular concerns about the alleged "Westminster ring" along with all the "Jimmy Savilles" might mean that the concerns about the alleged Westminster group may conveniently get lost from view, whilst attention is turned on other more easily identified perpetrators.

This chopping and changing of enquiry leaders suits the Government just fine.

Yes durhamjen for Teresa May and the old boys network.

Getting worse for Theresa May.

www.theguardian.com/society/2014/nov/02/theresa-may-child-abuse-report-inquiry-home-office

This case has, disgracefully, been dragging on since 1983 when the dossier alleging the involvement of a number of high profile people was handed to Leon Brittan. This dossier is said to have "gone missing". The MP who raised the issue back in the 80's said at one point that he would name the suspects in the House of Commons, but he never did so. He said he had been threatened in some way.

Senior political and establishment figures were also said to have been involved in the Kincora Boys' Home abuse scandal but it appears that, despite many people wanting this also to be examined as part of the Westminster inquiry, this will apparently not happen.

It's claimed that the letter Fiona Woolf wrote to clarify exactly what social links she had with Leon Brittan was amended seven times by a senior civil servant in order to play down those links.

As it seems it was fairly predictable that it would be discovered both the women appointed to chair the inquiry had at least some degree of conflict of interest, it makes me wonder how much commitment there really is to quickly getting this inquiry up and running.

I heard a programme on File on 4 last night called The Last Taboo, its about sexual abuse in the Asian community.

Even after all the recent news, I can't remember feeling quite so angry, shocked and helpless at the plight of so many vulnerable women and children, there is no-one to hold an enquiry and speak for them. Did anyone else hear the programme?

Among other media reports, the phone-in Any Answers on Radio 4 on Saturday suggested that sexual abuse of children is found in all communities in the UK. Anyone my age - early 70s - will remember reports of vulnerable children being exploited in this way for at least the last 50 years. I'm quite hopeful now that there is more public awareness and public disgust, something might actually be done about it. I'm not sure a government inquiry is the most sensible response, though. The authorities in South Yorkshire, for example, have names and addresses of men who have apparently never even been questioned, and witnesses who are now ready to give evidence.

I didn't hear Any Answers this week, but I am sure that sexual abuse is found in all communities.

The difference in the Asian community seemed to be that if a victim spoke out they would be ostracised and threatened for dishonouring their family and the community would close ranks. The examples given were heartbreaking and the men know that because of the culture of denial they can carry on getting away with unspeakable abuse.

The more I hear and read about the sexual abuse of children the more it seems to me to be a human trait. I am not condoning it but the Greeks and Romans liked young boys and the girls were not even mentioned.
Henry the Eighth liked young girls as wives to be.
Only now it seems to be that the Pakistanis in Rotherham seem to have been particularly cruel and there were so many scantily dressed young girls about with no one at home to care what they did, it made things easy for them. Its not the girls' fault but their families should look after them better.
I have worked for years in a Women's refuge and what these woman and young girls lack is some kind of parent to stick up for them. They simply have no back up. I visit Rotherham regularly as I have family there and almost every taxi driver is a Pakistani and there are huge swathes of houses where you see only Pakistanis. They have a really strong basis in Rotherham.
As for the rest of Rotherham people they are devasted as the damage done the reputation on their town. I think you could be forgiven for feeling racist in this situation.

The men identified in Rotherham recently have all been from the same community. That isn't surprising as many of these scandals seem to involve a network of people known to each other. There is never any excuse for being racist and blaming it on a particular cultural group or the parents lets everyone else off the hook.