Rotherham Child Abuse

Do others think the PCC should resign? I do and think he might well

And the idea that the police didn't act because of being afraid of being accused of racism?? Tell that to the young black men vastly disproportionality stopped and searched.

I totally agree Granny , it not about ^ US^ at all.

I am STILL beyond

Well channel it Nonu!

I've just finished reading the report this morning MiceElf, after starting it last night. I am astonished that there were so many initiatives, conferences, committees and many agencies either set up or involved to address CSE, which sadly failed in constructive and robust follow through.
It's just not enough to be seen to be doing something.

A classic case of massive willful ignorance.

Don"t get your drift Granny

The most disconcerting thing I heard on the ITV news last night was an anonymous witness who stated that it was all still going on, if that is the case, all the usual platitudes of "lessons have been learned" are meaningless.

I feel the men who commit these crimes believe they are invincible and even if they are caught, possibly they won't be convicted. The few that have been sentenced receive a relatively light prison term anyway, which hardly ever reflects the awful nature of their crimes and the many lives that have been ruined as a result.

Ffin- I think it's much much more serious than massive wilful ignorance

Ditto, ffinochio I read it last night and listened to the head of children's services talking on R4 this morning. A clueless man who believes he has taken his employees 'through a very difficult time.' I hope he realises that no-one took the children through an even worse time and resigns. The police who didn't take the children seriously and 'lost' good evidence of abuse should be sacked and deprived of their pensions. To hear a young woman describing how as a child she kept escaping the protection of her mother to prevent her being attacked, too, is terrifying. The complete lack of coordination and understanding of those authorities responsible for safeguarding children makes me wonder how many other such areas are equally unable to protect children.

Nonu- we can all do something in all sorts of ways and at all sorts of levels rather than just say we feel sad, angry etc. it might just be signing a relevant on- line petition, it might be writing to your MP or local councillor. It can be reflecting on how we bring up our girls and how we help them to feel valued in themselves and not just through the prism of male attention. It can be how we bring up our boys and encourage them to respect and value women. It can be joining in campaigns against the sexualisation of young girls and women in general. It can be at getting involved in local politics to add our perspective to the debates on priorities etc You get my drift now?

Yes, I understand that, Twice - and agree, but at it's core, at the heart of this terrible catalogue of failure to look after such vulnerable children, I feel there was massive willful ignorance in addressing this at the very roots.

It's probably about the words I'm using but I'm trying to say that I think there is ignorance( even though there should not be, wilful ignorance ( again even more unforgivable) and then deliberate, malice afore though cover up for a variety of reasons

I think there was and is, wilful ignorance, but, having read the report and reflected on it overnight, and thinking about the way so many institutions and services work, it seems to me that that four issues really underpin this whole dreadful matter.

Firstly, there is the whole issue, touched onbt G2ce of male dominance and power, and the view, held by many of those people that the girls were of no value and colluded in their own fate.

And secondly, there is the whole culture of fear where those who might speak out are frightened to do so because of the corporate culture and fear of losing their jobs. This happened to a brave researcher at Rotherham who had a dreadful experience which is detailed in the report.

Thirdly, those who attempted to pursue their concerns, for example three secondary headteachers who tried to get the police to do something about the taxi firms, and members of Risky Business who also attempted to effect change, met with obstruction and / or reorganisation.

And finally there is the role of the elected Councillors who did not hold officers to account and indeed in some cases, appeared to have links with some of the businesses involved in CSE. Wherever there is a monopoly council with little or no opposition it seems that a bullying culture emerges and Councillors are focussed on protecting themselves and their cronies who are often permanent officers in other authorities.

In some areas of Britain there is a massive cultural divide and the multicultural ideal has never worked. Of late the onus of respect towards different cultures and religions has been placed on the indigenous white population. Racism works two ways, and clearly these men have absolutely no respect for young white females, they are merely fodder to be used and abused, worthless in fact. I rather fear these attitudes are deeply ingrained and all the lip service in the world to British values will do little to change their mindset. Perhaps we should come to terms with the fact that there is a loathing and contempt by some for their host country, and what they perceive as our laissez-faire anything goes way of life which they have sought to exploit.

TerriBull, sadly there were and are many victims from the Pakistani community in Rotherham as well as white victims. This is all detailed in the report. And police and others totally unwilling to make the effort to connect with that community, relying instead on male Councillors and male imams. Read it.

It is a bit late about instilling values into my children, as they are all grown now and have children of their own.

Though needless to say I brought them up in a very correct manner.

MiceElf, I have read that there have been girls and women from their own communities that have been groomed, likewise I have read there were a small proportion of Sikh and Hindu female victims, but I think it would be safe to say the vast majority are white, because they sadly they are viewed as "trash" not only by the Pakistani community but by the police and male councillors as well. Deep rooted misogyny was never going to help these unfortunate youngsters.

I will read the report when I have more time.

And what about Max Clifford, Jimmy Saville, and so on. Same attitude to victims. Most abusers are white. All are criminals and should be pursued and prosecuted.

It's absolutely counter- productive, and will delight white sex abusers( who make up 95% of those on the ex offenders register) if we start to equate only men from certain communities with such behaviour. The black cab driver who was the serial rapist was white as were all of his victims. He got away with it for so long because the police didn't take young women seriously

The debate has to include cultural issues of certain communities of course but cannot be limited to that

MiceElf I was just about to say the same as you. The majority of the Rotherham offenders are South Asian and British-born Asian, but they were trafficking children with white offenders. Many of the councillors, police and child protection staff are non-white British and other races, the abused children were both white and non-white Btitish. The authorities dismissed many of the children as out of control, 'promiscuous' and non-compliant, not understanding that being sexually exploited and attacked was a cause of such behaviour, not a side-effect. All child protection roles require that this is understood through extensive, updated training.

The majority of sex offenders in the UK, including those involved in paedophile rings and trafficking, are white men. However, it's immaterial what race or colour they are, other than to ensure they are treated the same way in the criminal justice system. The cowards who avoided investigating and tackling these offenders for fear of appearing racist do not deserve to be in their jobs.

GrannyTwice crossed posts!

when I'm always impressed by your knowledgeable posts about the criminal justice system - not always comfortable reading because of the subject matter but nevertheless very informative.

May I pick you up on "The cowards who avoided investigating and tackling these offenders for fear of appearing racist ......"

Was the lack of response from the authorities really down to fearing accusations of racism, or is it just a convenient excuse? Were Rotherham council any more vigilant in cases that didn't involve Asian men?

Riverwalk in my experience very few people know where to start when they hear allegations of sexual abuse, unless they have really committed themselves to learning about the contradictions and obstacles that get in the way of investigating it. Complainants don't have training so they can tell a clear, evidenced story about what happened to them and the people hearing their story need good, analytical training to enable them to sift through what is indicative of abuse. Child protection police and specialist social workers are usually very good, but complaints might be made to someone on the police station desk who doesn't get the issues being relayed to them, or procedures might not be followed because of overwork/shortage of staff.

I don't think Rotherham is much different from other towns - they have their policies and procedures in place, they hemorrhage staff and get behind with training, and senior managers who know what they're doing get promoted or moved sidewards into less stressful posts. The authorities who bring in excellent consultants to train and support child protection staff seem to do marginally better but this is an expensive resource which gets cut when budgets tighten.

It comes down to committed child protection workers who stay in a harrowing, stressful job instead of escaping at the first opportunity. They get to know who is who, they know generations of the same families, and they keep building on their knowledge and experience, so when they hear about risk to a child they know how to persist in the face of retractions, denials and complaints about them being 'Rottweilers!'

I think the 'cowards who avoided investigating and tackling these offenders' were at a high level. The report describes how members of staff at ground level were confused and even afraid to refer to issues of race. The 'Risky Business' project manager was instructed not to refer to the race of the perpetrators when delivering training. Other staff members reported that they were instructed by their managers 'to be cautious' about referring to the ethnicity of the perpetrators.

Having worked in a number of local authority child protection teams I can verify that it is common for staff to feel uncertain and uneasy about what they can and can't say about issues to do with ethnicity in reports, in meetings, and in peer group supervision. This has been going on for more than 20 years and is not a healthy situation.

Of course most perpetrators of sexual abuse are white males, and most abuse happens within the family. However CSE is different and needs specialist teams to tackle it. We do no one any favours if we overlook the fact that there may in some cases, and some areas, be a race element that could be specific to that area. I fail to see what is wrong with acknowledging that and in using that knowledge to work with all communities to tackle the problem. I completely agree that the worst prejudice at work here is sexism and misogyny which affects females of all ethnic backgrounds.