Rotherham Child Abuse

Yes well, he was trying to redefine himself, I guess, as not a toff.
But there are not a lot of people who would agree with him.

Working class as defined by Tony Benn: if you are paid for your labours, irrespective of what it is, you are working class.

Petallus

In that case I'll stick to 'where I come from' on me own.

It's far more classy.

I agree with JessM that class would have been one factor influencing the way the various authorities reacted to information regarding the abuse of these girls.

It is well known that the police take a different attitude when dealing with middle-class families than working class ones, particulary that part of the working class which could be called the underclass.

POGS I don't know where you come from but if affluent graduates and qualified solicitors are considered to be working class there, it ain't the same place I come from .

GrannyTwice

When I say where I come from I mean in my head.

Are you the sort of person that thinks a good person stacking shelves in a supermarket is not worth the same as a solicitor or a graduate from an affluent family. I see them as people.

I b----y detest class being mentioned, especially having to argue my reasoning with you on such a serious thread.

GT

HD - I thought commanding officers were police officers or have I got that wrong?

How do you differentiate between seniority of police officers or do you think they are all the same level?

Maybe they are fire fighters

Ho ho ho - how I laughed at that little jape of yours ...

When the headteachers were not listened to, did they kick up a stink via their MPs or some other way?

HD - I thought commanding officers were police officers or have I got that wrong? Maybe they are fire fighters

Btw - what does middle class mean where you come from?

Pogs - I really can't believe that you have no understanding of the concept of class at all and if you really think that our institutions are class blind and that class is not relevant in this context .....

KatyK Thu 28-Aug-14 11:18:56

Was the daughter living at home at the time or was she in care?

GrannyTwice

My comment re working class was in response to Jess M's post of 08.16.

For your information a graduate from an affluent family or a qualified solicitor is working class where I come from.

I was disgusted that class was brought into this thread in the first place and I was trying to put it back in the box it should have stayed in.

POGS Thu 28-Aug-14 11:38:48

Good post - I agree entirely.

GT - it has always been my understanding that police officers obey their commanding officers; they wouldn't last long in their job if they repeatedly went against orders. I would agree that some police officers do leave a lot to be desired but nowadays, I do think more of them have managed to drag themselves out of the cave.

"At an operational level, the Police gave no priority to CSE, regarding many child victims with contempt and failing to act on their abuse as a crime."

This is the bit that really makes me want to weep. And a similar attitude is here ......"Two of the adults received police _cautions after admitting to the police that they had intercourse with Child A." - Child A was twelve years old. Cautions - beyond belief.

The report is very clear that the social deprivation, drug/alcohol addiction and mental health problems of both the children and parents was key - and that the underfunding of addiction and mental health services played its part. Prevention again - not a popular topic with legislators, as you cannot neatly quantify the results and prove value for money.

It makes horrifying reading; not just because of the actions perpetrated against these children, but because of the attitudes of those who should have protected them; and the absence of services to support these traumatised children when they came forward or were discovered.

www.themediablog.co.uk/the-media-blog/2013/01/daily-mail-turns-the-creepiness-up-a-notch.html

Joel- Well if you've read this thread properly you'll have seen that some of us have been saying that it's a complex, multi- faceted and layered issue that involves more than just 'blaming ' institutions but that we all have a responsibility for shaping the sort of society in which this can happen. Look at the link above - this is just one example of how the gutter press, and I include the DM in this along with the unspeakable Sun and it's page 3 girls so often chosen for looking very young, encourage the sexualisation of young girls in particular. The so- called politically correct, ie those of whose who complain about that type of comment, also complained , and got withdrawn from sale, t- shirts for young girls with the slogan 'jail bait' Those of us who have read the report rather than the laughable coverage in most of the press know that it makes quite clear that this is about much much more than racism. But of course, it's so much easier to just blame something as mind numbingly trite as 'political correctness'. And how does your analysis explain the abuse in the RC church and Jimmy Saville and Rolf Harris? Try thinking concepts of power, predominantly male power, try thinking misogyny and the trashing and rubbishing of young girls from disadvantaged backgrounds

I have noticed in the reporting of incidents like these, that the focus always quickly diverts from the actual perpetrators to blaming police, child protection departments and councils.
We should all be taking blame for allowing our society to decline into such a myre of political correctness allowing some children to become almost feral and allowing our social and moral norms to be diluted for the sake of supposed racial and cultural cohesion. As with every other incident as this, lots of talk and momentary anguish and no action!

Jess, my reply above was in response to Mishap. X posted with you. Signed MiceElf (working class)

There is nothing "wooly" or "government-bashing" about pointing out that the sort of services that once existed to try and help poor (as in unskilled) parents (who themselves have probably been poorly parented) to learn how to do a better job have been cut. That is a fact. Many of the children who went through these centres with their parents have not finished up in the care system, from which many of these victims came.

As well as trying to ask why these girls became so vulnerable and how the systems to protect them failed, we are faced with the appalling idea of a cover up on a grand scale. There are no excuses possible for not having taken action when these crimes came to light and I think that every person who turned a blind eye should resign (or lose their pensions if they have retired). I am happy to see a "witch hunt" that winkles out every person who knew and did nothing - they should be ashamed of themselves and they should be made to pay the price of their crimes. Failing to report a crime is in itself a crime, and the law can deal with them.

The fear of being branded a racist is no excuse whatsoever; but it has to be said that the degree of PC pressure did go through a period of lunacy. I speak as a social worker who was told on a training course not to use the words "black coffee" or "blackboard." Total b******s, as all the black people I worked with agreed. Hopefully we have got past this a bit now and some sanity is creeping in.

I have no idea whether the racial culture in which these perpetrators were raised can categorically be said to the cause of (or to have contributed to) the aberrations, but I am not terribly interested in that - they have committed crimes and they should be punished and taken out of circulation - they are a danger. Whether they themselves are amenable to change is a matter for those with expertise in this area.

However the culture in which they were brought up (in its broadest, rather than racial sense) has to be a factor, just as the culture which rendered these girls so vulnerable has its part to play.

There are no easy answers; but what can be done is to make sure that anyone who feels as though they might let something as serious as this pass and fail to report it, leaving children vulnerable, knows for sure that the full weight of the law will drop on their heads.

I have read the full report this morning. It is worth reading. A lot of meetings, committees and Action plans but not much action taken in the past. The police held a number of operations and arrests but the CPS decided not to prosecute on a number of occasions. Reading between the lines it also seems that the CPS were not helpful to the inquiry. They should be renamed the Criminal Protection Society.

I don't know about liberal, Terribull but as a 'Guardian (and other papers) reading, socialist leftie' I would have seen it as my social responsibility and my job to rock the boat. Learning how to challenge ideologies, cultures, statue quo, powerful individuals who are practised at keeping social workers and police at arm's length is part of the 'art' of the job that nightowl was referring to earlier.

I have just read Allison Pearson's article TerriBull I like her directness.
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11059138/Rotherham-In-the-face-of-such-evil-who-is-the-racist-now.html

I read in the paper that LEAST 15 girls are going to sue Rotherham Council & South Yorkshire police for failing to protect them.

Good for them , not that all the money in the world will take away the pain and misery they have and will suffer.

At least though it might go part way.

I agree with your points POGS, I only found out yesterday that Denis McShane was the MP for Rotherham at the time the abuse was taking place and we now know, that he was aware of what was going on but in retrospect said something along the lines of "I was too much of a liberal Guardian reading leftie to rock the boat" What sort of an excuse is that!. Police were allowed to search every nook and cranny of Cliff Richard's house in respect of an alleged historical abuse that may or may not have taken place against one individual, but seemingly can't protect 1,400 youngsters from sexual crimes that have taken place under their very nose.

Alison Pearson wrote a good article in the Telegraph today where she makes the point that society should acknowledge that racism is prevalent in other communities. For too long we have been fed the idea that this is synonymous with the white population only. Whilst child abuse is not the preserve of any one ethnicity, I rather suspect that the ratio of Pakistani men who have abused children would be on a larger scale than the rest of the population.

And yyyyyyyyyyy to Mamie about reading the full report