English GN's referendeum

whitewave, I think it wrong that Welsh and Scots MP's should have a vote on any matter that applies only to England , Wales now has it's own NHS - money allowed is decided by Westminster- and our Assembly decide how it is spent, only English MP's should have a say on England NHS, same with education, not with laws because we come under England and Wales .

Definitely NO.

I am against referenda - how can all the Scottish people have any idea what the real implications are, particularly economically? There will be a lot of tribal voting and also a vote that says they do not like the present UK government - but this is for good, and not just for telling the government that you do not agree with them. Once they have their independence the governments that they elect will equally fail to live up to everyone's wishes and they will have sacrificed much in the way of stability.

More devolution/decentralisation may happen yet. www.ippr.org/publications/decentralisation-decade

Small nations like Sweden, Denmark, Norway and Finland are doing quite well, papaoscar. It might be because they are in a loose federation called Scandinavia. Or it might be because they are all more equal societies than the UK.

The fact that you feel they are more equal societies is surely about the politics and not about whether they are separate countries durhamjen.

With additional devolution in Scotland there would be a good case for additional devolution throughout the rest of the UK and then Scotland and other areas might be able to have a more social democratic structure. Surely separation should be good for a country whatever political party is voted into power by the majority

At least you have the benefit of a bit of devolve-ment unlike us in England who have to lump it with everyone else having a say.

the Westmjnster government is the UK government not the English government , I assume I have not annoyed anyone

Interesting about claiming back 'Englishness' from the far right nationalists. There are lots of events all over England that are traditionally English/ celebrate English history/traditions. However I am fairly confident in my assumption that it is not far right nationalists running the Morris Dancing /mummers plays/ May pole and county dancing etc etc that happen with great regularity all over the place! They are too busy shoving sh*t through someone's letterbox or parading in town with their aggressive dogs!

Small nations like Sweden, Denmark, Norway and Finland are doing quite well, papaoscar. It might be because they are in a loose federation called Scandinavia. Or it might be because they are all more equal societies than the UK.

By the way, what are you doing about your worries about the TTIP?
If Scotalnd votes Yes, it can ditch the TTIP. If it votes No it will have to go along with the government and accept the TTIP.

Yes Gracesgran and they no doubt think that if/when it all goes pear shaped they can just reverse the vote in the next election in 5 years time. Silly Billy's but what do you expect when you give children the vote?

Watching a little bit of the youth question time type event last night many of the children young people seemed to see it more like a General Election than a once and for all vote

Sad thing is ,*suzied*, that history shows that small nations are usually put upon by bigger nations and so on.

Sometimes, the small nations can adequately stand their ground as our Government did regarding the foot and mouth crisis you had in the UK. Your Government wanted to send all the carcasses over here for incineration (thousands of them) and our Government said no - your problem you deal with the incinerating on your own land and that is what happened.

We did fail over the reciprocal health agreement though and are now advised to carry health insurance when visiting the UK - I just hope our Government charges the UK Government for treating UK visitors to the TT and various other races that take up our scant resources.

Well said bags.

It occurred to me in my semi-dreams during the night that, although people in Wales and NI will be just as affected/interested as People in England about indyref, it wasn't such a mistake to ask for the opinions of English GNs. After all, it is the government in Westminster, England that the SNP and supporters of Scottish independence have a grievance about, isn't it? I'm not aware of any Scottish grievances about Wales and NI.

Just saying, in support of the OP and easily made 'mistakes'.

And this isn't a comment about the validity or otherwise of grievances, Scottish, Welsh, Irish or English against the government in Westminster, so please don't read it amiss.

Anniebach you being Welsh an' all shouldn't it be you that starts a Welsh GN referendum? The Welsh already have their own assembly and it would be good to have their point of view.

Perhaps we could have a Northern Ireland vote too - do we have a NI GNer?

For what it's worth I would join the majority No lobby. Although increasingly I can see the advantage of the Scots leaving the rest of us. Perhaps it will lead to an eventual federation when they want to come back!

Sad thing is ,*suzied*, that history shows that small nations are usually put upon by bigger nations and so on. Tiny may be perfect but is very vulnerable. There has to be a balance to all this, I suppose. I'm very concerned at the moment about all this TTIP trade dispute stuff chuntering along in the background between the EU and the US. I think we're all being lined up for a good rogering by powerful commercial interests.

I would vote yes if I were Scottish. I believe in self determination for small nations, it's not the same as nationalism.

I put 'British' down as my nationality, DJen, but would be quite happy to put 75% English 25% Scottish down as well, despite the incoheremt, sectarian rantings of the low-life of both nations. They are best ignored for the bigots they are.

In that case maybe we in England should reclaim our Englishness back durhamjen?
After all the far right are not only in England and are the minority. I thought, hoped we were getting more relaxed about our Englishness after the friendly Olympics?

If had a vote I would vote yes. However when asked my nationality on any form I always say UK, because I do not want to put English.
Englishness has been hijacked by the far right.

Sorry..typing too fast

If I was a Scot I would probably vote Yes but as I am not I would vote No!

If I was a Scot i would probably vote Yes but as i ma not I would vote No!

Cheers!

You are not guilty, Whitewave. You are awarded one hundred laughs to commence immediately. Keep smiling!

You are wasting your time annie I never take part in those sort of discussions.
Life is far too short and really meant to be enjoyed and have fun, especially at our age.

Of course I never think the Welsh and Cornish get on. (lighthearted joke in case it is misunderstood)

For goodness sake, does yet another thread have to descend into bickering. It was light hearted Anniebach - take it as such.

You could start another thread on the subject from your point of view.