Housing Benefit for under 25s

www.jrf.org.uk/blog/2014/09/sanctions

To show how sanctions affect the young disproportionately.
It sounds like some of you will not think it matters because you do not think they should have benefits in the first place.
However the number of inwork claimants for housing benefit has risen by 60% in this parliament, so even if they are working they will still be penalised.
Ethel, I do not recognise those 16 year olds that you are talking about, the ones who want to be given a free house. I do not know any. Does anyone else?

Sorry ethel didn't mean to imply that you did. Was just saying how I felt.

Elegran I don't recognise those young people you talk about but you may well know far more than I do in my limited experience. Two of mine went to vocational boarding schools and now, many years later, seem to be able to get on with everyone. One of the unexpected bonuses of their education.

I know someone who only ever lived at home and then bought a house with one other. They fell out and the other left. 10 years later she got married but the marriage didn't last because she clearly thinks of no one but herself and has no contact with most of her family. If many young people are like her then I understand why family relationships break down.

But those who have been in care or have lost contact with their familes or find themselves with a baby to look after need support. Perhaps there should be more shared accommodation for young single people, and fewer individual homes? More help to find work and accommodation, rather that just financial help? I agree too.

I agree Holly, maybe communal homes where they can share child care and still work or study. whats wrong with the kibbutz type of living.

Also, how come countries like Switzerland and Germany never have many people on benefits or few. I must admit I know little about these countries but some GN members maybe could enlighten me.

But those who have been in care or have lost contact with their familes or find themselves with a baby to look after need support. Perhaps there should be more shared accommodation for young single people, and fewer individual homes? More help to find work and accommodation, rather that just financial help?

Absolutely.

Elegran I couldn't agree more I couldn't live with anyone apart from maybe my daughter.

Parents are not tolerant enough these days, your children are your family and if they live at home you have to put up with their behaviour. If you have brought them up to be respectful they will not bring people home for sex etc, they will tell you what time they are coming home. How easy is it to say 'I will be home by midnight' as they go out.
Some of these parents have just not brought their kids up to have respect or to behave decently, they expect society to provide housing benefits to their anti social brats so that they can live in peace.

I had my daughter at home until she was 26 and yes I had a bit of washing up extra but she always told me if she was staying out late or all night and would phone if she had missed the bus, of course I worried but that's what parents do. Kids are for life not just the first 16 years or so. I would have her back now or any age if she needed me. I don't see her as a burden to be chucked out because shes grown up as some parents do.

I should have added, that sharing a flat with other young singles gives the same kind of "rubbing off the corners" experience. A row with a mate about your disgusting housekeeping habits, or the volume of your music, does not produce the same resentment and sense of entitlement as the same comments from your mother.

A whole flat to yourself does blunt the impulse to get off the backside and do any job to get one to yourself.

But those who have been in care or have lost contact with their familes or find themselves with a baby to look after need support. Perhaps there should be more shared accommodation for young single people, and fewer individual homes? More help to find work and accommodation, rather that just financial help?

I don't hate them either, ethel This thread is about under 25s, not about people on benefits. The two categories overlap but are not identical. Benefits are in place to help those who do not have enough money to live on, whatever their age or sex, or whether they have dependants.

My post was about young people wanting the independence of a home of their own, without the ability to pay for and maintain one. That is not easy for them (or their family!) and living at home with the family takes tolerance on both sides. Young people want to come home at all hours, or not at all, without giving prior warning, and have friends in to make music (or make love) while parents wish they had earplugs. Parents lie awake waiting for the footsteps on the stairs, to know that their "child" is not in hospital or in jail. They find the house littered with dirty cups and plates which have been abandoned, and all the other annoyances.

My point was that learning to fit in with the others in their surroundings, and not expect others to put up with antisocial behaviour, is good training for when they will be sharing a home with one other person. Many partnerships end in tears because one or both parties are so egocentric that living together is impossible.

Nonnie and ethel - I agree with your posts entirely.

durhamjen

I was just telling you what I thought the reference might be about.

I still have no idea what is being referenced.

Nonnie, I never suggested you did hate people on benefits as Ive said on an earlier post, those who are fairly comfortable /can make ends meet are usually ok and feel sympathetic to those on benefits but its those who are on low wages who earn about the same as those who don't work find it hard to accept it.

I earn just above the benefit level, I don't hate anyone in particular for being on benefits but I hear people talking and hear the anger and jealousy that people have for 'scroungers'.

But to get back to young people, I think another problem is that everyone feels the need to improve their standard of living and so youngsters nowadays want nothing but the best, they don't seem to think they have to work and save. there is no sense of pride nowadays.

Many young people who are getting married now ask for things like washing machines on their wedding gift list. I was grateful for a few dusters and some odd crockery. It could be fun being poor a few years ago but no-one sees that nowadays.

I don't hate people on benefits ethel, I blame the system which seems to have made it the norm or an expectation. It takes away so much sense of achievement for some people which is very sad. I would prefer the welfare system to give more to those who really hit hard times having already achieved what they could on their own merit. It really worries me that we have generations of people who have never worked and see welfare as their right.

In NL when you lose your job through no fault of your own, if you have worked for a qualifying period you get 70% of your last salary for a defined time (think it is 9 months) after which you only get a very paltry amount. This seems to me to be a far better system which gives people an incentive to find and keep work. I know someone there who has a son who is quite capable but doesn't keep a job for very long and so has to live at home.

As usual those who put least into society get the most out of it.

where is the incentive to work if a young person can leave home at 16 and get a rented house free.

Youngsters should drop their expectations of a free home for doing nothing, we are breeding a society of wasters.

There should be more hostels or community homes for them to share until they can afford something better, also, a few years ago, flat sharing was the norm even if you were not a student. Many youngsters left home and lived with their friends, nowadays they expect the best accommodation for nothing. Let them learn to scrimp and save they will appreciate it when they are older and have a place of their own.

There is a lot of hatred on the streets for people on benefits it is scary.

I agree with you Elegran rather back to basics. Maybe if there was no subsidised accommodation for young people there wouldn't be so many 'needing' it? Contraception and abortion have never been so available so no one has to have a baby unless they want one. I doubt there are many parents who hate their children so much they would see them homeless and if there were no 'incentives' for young people to leave home families might well learn to get on with each other. Yes, I know its hard but it would free up resources to help those who really need it.

I agree that it is difficult for those who have come out of university and cannot get the job they have trained for but this has always been the case,even when only about 5% went to university. Now that so many do get degrees it is necessary for some of them to reduce their expectations. All work can lead to skills which can be used in future jobs as I found out for myself and used to climb the career ladder. It was hard and meant moving home with all that entails but it was a choice DH and I made.

Hollydaze, you said you did not understand the reference to 'a safe place to live' in your post of 01.52.12

I was just telling you what I thought the reference might be about.

A safe place to live is listed as a basic human right in the European convention on human rights.

Does the government not lump under 25s together, Jane, when it sys they cannot have housing benefit, as mentioned in the OP?

I think we're perhaps guilty of lumping all under-25's together in just the same way we dislike so much when younger people assume the over-60s have all the same expectations and outlook.

The situation of a new graduate in a non-vocational subject who is finding it difficult to start their career is not at all the same as an unmarried 18 year old who has a small child to bring up, and is without the financial means to do so.
Very different solutions required in both cases, but both are very complex problems.

Hollydaze, a safe place to live is a basic human right.

I have never said it wasn't durhamjen - I don't understand why the word 'safe' has been used, unless I've missed something?

Nonnie I am not convinced that unemployment as most of us understand it is falling much. Reduction in people slgning-on does not equate to more people having a permanent job. There are large numbers being forced to take zero hours contracts or "self employment" - which often means hourly low pay and no job security or any employment rights whatsoever. There is also an increase in "internships" in which young people work for free to try to get some work experience on their CVs. Or forced off the dole completely. Round here people are sometimes told they must accept jobs that are unsocial hours, even though there is no transport available for them to get there and back.

What if someone under 25 is married with a baby, working hard, managing to rent a flat and then, through no fault of their own, is made redundant?

It does happen.

It's true that expectations were more modest in the past. My parents were thrilled, on first being married, to be able to rent a small terraced house of their own with no central heating, no bathroom, no proper ceiling in the kitchen and an outside lav. They were the envy of their friends.

That kind of accommodation would be illegal now.

It is also true that people expected more. I expected to be able to get a job with no difficulty and change to a better one if I felt like it. I expected holiday and sick pay and to know that I was fairly secure in the knowledge that I was unlikely to be made redundant.

I expected to be able to buy a house if I saved for a couple of years for a deposit.

Times change.

Couldn't we do both Jess? At least now unemployment is going down a bit. Let's hope it continues.

I think the dilemma is whether we are a country that supports those who genuinely want to work hard and support themselves but are struggling to do so, due to low wages or no jobs available - but to accept the consequence that we will also be also supporting a minority who don't want to work OR are we a country that is determined to make the "work shy" suffer and don't care about the struggling ones.

I agree that expectations are very different now to when I left home at 19 and moved to a big city. I couldn't afford a flat so stayed in a YWCA and had a lot of fun. Yes, there were rules, we had to say if we would be in for dinner and there was a curfew but we were a very mixed group and had a great time.

When I was 20 I rented a bedsit with another girl and we really did just have the one room with a 2 ring gas cooker and one little fire. We shared a bathroom with the people in the downstairs flat.

We all survived somehow and at that time women earned a lot less than men but we didn't expect so many things and it never occurred to us that someone else should pay for our homes and lives nor that we should have children we couldn't afford.

I don't have any answers and I still think it must be very hard to decide how to cut the national cake.

Living at home with your parents and getting on with them is good practice for living with a partner and getting on with him/her - not expecting to have sole custody of the remote control or to come home at all hours without question. It might cut down the numbers of divorces if more young people bided their time before getting a one-person home of their own.

(Yes, I know that with a baby life with parents can be difficult - how about using contraceptives and common sense to delay that baby until the separate home is at least on the horizon?)

Hollydaze, a safe place to live is a basic human right. Look at the Shelter website.

Seems that the problem is the country is divided into an affluent area in which housing costs are ridiculously high - but there is work and areas where housing costs are still moderate but there is no work. Difficult then to have a one-size-fits-all solution.

My children both flat shared when they started work Absent and I am sure many still do. The idea that you are entitled to a home of your own at this stage is a fairly new one, historically I would have thought.